Affordable ADS-B out

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Edgefly
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Re: Affordable ADS-B out

Postby Edgefly » Sat Feb 07, 2015 8:25 pm

In the last couple of days, several Raspberry Pi B units have been configured successfully to display the track conflict maps from ADS B data streams. I am personally less concerned with this than the weather information which will surely be similarly proven within a month or so. (My guess, the display interface may take a little more time to be generally available due to software legal maneuvering) The weather from ADS B once integrated into IPad and Android tablets will be a significant factor for sport pilots if they don't refuse to accept that they are not to be in IMC. This may prove to be an interesting year in Avionics developments.

SportPilot
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Re: Affordable ADS-B out

Postby SportPilot » Sat Feb 07, 2015 9:06 pm

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Last edited by SportPilot on Sat Feb 28, 2015 10:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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designrs
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Re: Affordable ADS-B out

Postby designrs » Sun Feb 08, 2015 8:19 am

I find ADS-B weather to be most satisfactory for VFR flying. The METARS and TAFs aloft are worth it. Even somewhat delayed Radar is occasionally helpful to see what's moving where. It is perfectly adequate and affordable for me flying VFR. I want trends to judge what's coming, weather where I'm headed, and to know where my good weather "safe out" is. Beyond that I'm looking out the window staying clear of anything that isn't managable VFR. It's not for "threading the needle" IFR operations. Unfortunately, I don't fly some jet aircraft to punch through between weather anyway.

It will be interesting this Summer when the thunderstorms come... but really ADS-B provides a window to see what's coming, what's moving in what direction, and what has cleared. Delayed or not, look out the window for confirmation.

I think of it as my constantly updated weather briefing in the air for situational awareness.

Edgefly
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Re: Affordable ADS-B out

Postby Edgefly » Sun Feb 08, 2015 9:15 am

Believe that the Metars and TAFs are where the real payoffs for VFR pilots are. Another possible benefit woul be some ALERT notices which might impact a planned VFR trip. The radar data will be nice but as reported above will have some delay factor. Sport pilot flight planning should not depend on sneaking into an airport which is going to be IMC in a few minutes anyway. That's when you jump into that "second" plane which has on-board radar and FIKI etc. If only we could somehow get more reliable ceilings a tops...... Anyway, if this can be made presentable on our tablets for a couple of hundred bucks-wow!

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dstclair
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Re: Affordable ADS-B out

Postby dstclair » Sun Feb 08, 2015 10:18 am

Edgefly- the Raspberry PB is kind of cool but I don't see where that provides any real functional value in the cockpit. For receiving today, you could find a used GDL-39 for around $250 that does more than the do it yourself Flightaware system. Add in an inexpensive Android Tablet and Garmin Pilot and you're set for under $400 for a portable system.
dave

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Re: Affordable ADS-B out

Postby Wm.Ince » Sun Feb 08, 2015 11:41 am

designrs wrote:I find ADS-B weather to be most satisfactory for VFR flying. The METARS and TAFs aloft are worth it. Even somewhat delayed Radar is occasionally helpful to see what's moving where. It is perfectly adequate and affordable for me flying VFR. I want trends to judge what's coming, weather where I'm headed, and to know where my good weather "safe out" is. Beyond that I'm looking out the window staying clear of anything that isn't managable VFR. It's not for "threading the needle" IFR operations. Unfortunately, I don't fly some jet aircraft to punch through between weather anyway.

It will be interesting this Summer when the thunderstorms come... but really ADS-B provides a window to see what's coming, what's moving in what direction, and what has cleared. Delayed or not, look out the window for confirmation.

I think of it as my constantly updated weather briefing in the air for situational awareness.

One peek out the window . . . is worth a thousand sweeps on the radar.
Bill Ince
CTSW
Retired Heavy Equipment Operator

Edgefly
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Re: Affordable ADS-B out

Postby Edgefly » Mon Feb 09, 2015 7:54 am

dstclair wrote:Edgefly- the Raspberry PB is kind of cool but I don't see where that provides any real functional value in the cockpit. For receiving today, you could find a used GDL-39 for around $250 that does more than the do it yourself Flightaware system. Add in an inexpensive Android Tablet and Garmin Pilot and you're set for under $400 for a portable system.



Agreed there are other ways of skinning this cat. Another possibility is to buy a used Stratus and use it with the IPad/Foreflight systems which I already have. All Portable installation, no sweat, adds the use of an AHRS albeit not certified but I didn't propose to IFR it anyway. Raspberry approaches have a lot to be done yet and are not for anti-Geek pilots ( not yet at least). I am just trying to make everyone aware of possibilities. There was a Stratus 1 on EBay last night bidding in the $60 dollar range. another sold for $500! a new Stratus 1 from Sporty's is $499 Nonetheless, the latest Raspberry is $35 and some of the imaginative folks out there think they can break the stranglehold of existing software
And create packages more cost competitive than the $1500 talked about for available uncertified equipment. Didn't mean this was everyone's' solution, just a different one. I can still remember when
people thought it was crazy to think that small GA aircraft would have the treasure trove of information currently available in today's' tablets.

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Re: Affordable ADS-B out

Postby Wm.Ince » Mon Feb 09, 2015 12:20 pm

Edgefly wrote:I can still remember when people thought it was crazy to think that small GA aircraft would have the treasure trove of information currently available in today's' tablets.

IMHO, I think the iPad has revolutionized airborne navigation for the general aviation community.
What's more, it seems to be changing and improving by leaps and bounds.
I love it.
Bill Ince
CTSW
Retired Heavy Equipment Operator

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MrMorden
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Re: Affordable ADS-B out

Postby MrMorden » Mon Feb 09, 2015 1:06 pm

Edgefly wrote:Nonetheless, the latest Raspberry is $35 and some of the imaginative folks out there think they can break the stranglehold of existing software
And create packages more cost competitive than the $1500 talked about for available uncertified equipment. Didn't mean this was everyone's' solution, just a different one. I can still remember when
people thought it was crazy to think that small GA aircraft would have the treasure trove of information currently available in today's' tablets.


I applaud the Raspberry efforts. However, I'm betting the real cost of ADS-B gear is in the transceivers. If they are going to transmit *anything*, they will have to be FCC certified, and it's possible that there is FCC/FAA agreement that transceivers transmitting on ADS-B freqs need FAA approval as well.

The computation, part, while not trivial, is inexpensive to the point of approaching free. Compute cycles are so ubiquitous and inexpensive that that is usually the least costly component of a modern device. After all, a thumb-drive sized full PC like Raspberry is $35.
Andy Walker
Athens, GA
Sport Pilot ASEL, LSRI
2007 Flight Design CTSW E-LSA

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dstclair
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Re: Affordable ADS-B out

Postby dstclair » Fri Feb 13, 2015 9:50 am

Let the battle begin! Navworx just announced an ADS-B UAT solution that meets the performance spec of the TSO for an introductory price of $699 (list $799). http://www.navworx.com/index.php.

Remote Mount UAT Transceiver for Experimental & LSA aircraft.

The ADS600-EXP offers full ADS-B OUT (transmit), and IN (receive) capabiliteis, deliverying traffic and weather to displays connected via internal WIFI and/or RS-232 serial channel.

Sends Traffic & Weather to popular iPad apps like Hilton WingX, Adventure Pilot iFly-GPS, and Seattle Avionics FlyQ.

Displays ADS-B Traffic & Weather (FIS-B) on non-proprietary systems such as Advanced Flight Displays (AFS), and Grand Rapid Technologies (GRT) EFIS's.


Need to add an antenna and, perhaps, a connection to your current transponder.
dave

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Re: Affordable ADS-B out

Postby Edgefly » Fri Feb 13, 2015 8:35 pm

Dave,

There's hope for sure. One of the Raspberry approaches uses a dongle to integrate the required receiver packages and Foreflight/Stratus has integrated the required antenna into the frame of the Stratus package. at these frequencies a 1/4 wave dipole is not very big ! If a few more adventuresome companies get interested, the complete package could come in around $300 with a portable installation and maybe only a transponder requirement which can be viewed as a replacement for the Mode C unit most of us are using. Can't be done ? Guess what a handheld Com/Nav radio which meets all of the FCC requirements costs today ~ an A-200 is list @ 349.99 and they can be bought for less. I'm still watching the lower end Raspberry etc. because successful units here will put enormous pressure on the standard manufacturers to bring their prices down to realistic.

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zaitcev
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Re: Affordable ADS-B out

Postby zaitcev » Sun Feb 15, 2015 8:08 pm

Original Pi really is not a good platform for this. Its USB host controller is junk, eats CPU cycles like no tomorrow, and you need those to run the demodulation. Other thing you need is a WiFi dongle, because that's how you output on a display (e.g. a tablet). I would say, at present you'd be advised to start with Beagle Bone Black (BBB) rather than the Pi.

Cheapest transciever that I found is HackRF. Ostensibly it costs $300, but since it's permanently out of stock everywhere, you have to pay more at eBay.

If you just want the weather, you could try and get away with an RTL dongle. Its performance is really marginal, and although I'm quite impressed at how Oliver coded dump978 to deal with it, there's really not much he can do. The cheapest real receiver is AirSpy, $200.

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snaproll
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Re: Affordable ADS-B out

Postby snaproll » Fri Feb 20, 2015 7:37 pm

Guess I still have many questions about ADS-B Out. I contacted Garmin regarding my current MAP496 (panel mounted) and reply as expected was "It doesn't meet TSO requirements... Finally got my answer regarding it's capability - WAAS Capable and Compliant. My GTX330 (mode S) Transponder is upgradable to the GTX330ES. It appears the MAP496 is capable of being used, will provide data requirements, but technically does not meet the TSO standards. I am still in the wait and see mode to watch for further regulatory changes. Currently have ADS-B-In display.

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dstclair
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Re: Affordable ADS-B out

Postby dstclair » Fri Feb 20, 2015 8:03 pm

The issue with the Garmin portables that many of us have mounted is not the quality of the tracking but the data stream that they output. To talk to a 330ES, they would need to send Garmin's ADS-B+ format. Garmin would need to upgrade the software to do so. I hope they do but don't expect they will.
dave

srhalter58
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Re: Affordable ADS-B out

Postby srhalter58 » Sat Feb 21, 2015 11:20 am

I have a ADS-B Raspberry PI setup at my home. The most interesting thing I notice is all the planes that are out there sending transponder data, but no location data. Even if I had my setup running in the plane, I would only track location for about 1/4 what is out there. Not much help if its a partial picture and you end up taking the info for granted. If anyone wants to see the display, try it out.

http://75.9.117.105:8080/

One the web browser opens move the map to Milwaukee WI. The items in green are typically ads-b enabled aircraft with exact location, The rest are flying around within a couple 100 mile radius somewhere...
Remos G3-600 N474SW


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