Affordable ADS-B out

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dstclair
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Affordable ADS-B out

Postby dstclair » Sun Nov 03, 2013 12:27 pm

Affordable is a relative term in aviation but I stumbled across an ADS-B out solution. They claim their transmitter will meet the TSO spec as well. It's a portable so wouldn't require an LOA. One could also permanently mount easily since it doesn't need display space. $975 (or one aviation units as per Eddie :D ). They have a transceiver for $1475 and works with the iFly products. More info at: http://www.skyguardtwx.com/UAT_Transmitter.html

I already have a 795+GDL-39 so this could certainly complete my wizbang wishlist. Basically, the SkyGuard would wake up the ground station and the GDL-39 would receive the traffic.

Even if it doesn't get certified, I can get traffic for 6 years then throw it away and get the appropriate equipment when required.

An advantage to my Sting (bubble canopy) is I can mount the two antenna easily in back on my 'hat rack'. Can probably secure the unit back there as well but will want to have it hidden.

Christmas might have come early.
Last edited by dstclair on Mon Nov 04, 2013 8:39 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Affordable ADS-B out

Postby cogito » Sun Nov 03, 2013 11:00 pm

Appears to be a dead link, David.

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dstclair
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Re: Affordable ADS-B out

Postby dstclair » Mon Nov 04, 2013 8:40 am

Fixed link in first post.
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Re: Affordable ADS-B out

Postby Merlinspop » Mon Nov 04, 2013 10:00 am

It looks like an option, at least in the pre-2020 airspace.

I don't know how they'll be able to get their unit certified as a portable. But it looks like 'installation' won't be terribly difficult with their design. In the meantime, it looks like it could serve you well for at least 6 years.
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Re: Affordable ADS-B out

Postby Flocker » Mon Nov 04, 2013 11:41 am

Just for comparison purposes, I asked my local Cessna Rep what it would cost to upgrade the 162's GTX-330 to the GTX-330ES. A local avionics shop quoted him $1,500.

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Re: Affordable ADS-B out

Postby dstclair » Mon Nov 04, 2013 11:54 am

In my conversation with Garmin support, the ES will just enable the output (the syntax, if you will). You would still need a position source and the 330 only works with certified Garmin GPS systems right now. Their non-certified units do not put out the required ADS-B information so you'll need either a panel-mounted Garmin GPS (big $$$$) or the recently announced Freeflight 1201 WAAS/GPS ($2900). Assume a little install time and you're probably talking between $5-6K for a 330 solution.
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Re: Affordable ADS-B out

Postby Nomore767 » Mon Nov 04, 2013 12:18 pm

Flocker wrote:Just for comparison purposes, I asked my local Cessna Rep what it would cost to upgrade the 162's GTX-330 to the GTX-330ES. A local avionics shop quoted him $1,500.


What does the Cessna rep believe the upgrade will do?

Is this what they would do to meet the 2020 ADS-B out requirement or do they have another option?

If Cessna still offer the Garmin G300 series PFD/MFD do they offer the new Garmin GTR200 radio (I think that's the one) instead of the SL-40? Vans offers the GTR200 in their RV12 SLSA and it's very compatible with Garmin GPS and seems like a neat radio (with built in intercom)…..if you know from talking with the rep?

Cheers, Howard

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Re: Affordable ADS-B out

Postby Flocker » Tue Nov 05, 2013 9:07 pm

Nomore767 wrote:
Flocker wrote:Just for comparison purposes, I asked my local Cessna Rep what it would cost to upgrade the 162's GTX-330 to the GTX-330ES. A local avionics shop quoted him $1,500.


What does the Cessna rep believe the upgrade will do?

Is this what they would do to meet the 2020 ADS-B out requirement or do they have another option?

If Cessna still offer the Garmin G300 series PFD/MFD do they offer the new Garmin GTR200 radio (I think that's the one) instead of the SL-40? Vans offers the GTR200 in their RV12 SLSA and it's very compatible with Garmin GPS and seems like a neat radio (with built in intercom)…..if you know from talking with the rep?

Cheers, Howard


He pitched me a deal on a 162. I told him it had to be ADS-B Out 2020 compliant. He told me to add $1,500 to the price, which was the cost to upgrade the 162's GTX-330 to the GTX-330ES.
Last edited by Flocker on Wed Nov 06, 2013 10:28 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Affordable ADS-B out

Postby dstclair » Tue Nov 05, 2013 9:26 pm

Your dealer is mistaken on what is needed for ADS-B out unless this particular SkyCatcher was equipped with a certified GPS. From the Garmin ADS-B Academy:
What equipment do I need for compliance?

First and foremost, you’ll need a WAAS position source, such as a GNS 430W/530W or GTN series avionics. This calculates your required position, track, altitude and speed information from signals it gathers from GPS satellites and WAAS signal corrections.

First and foremost, you’ll need a WAAS position source...Next, you’ll need a way to broadcast this information to ADS-B ground stations.
Next, you’ll need a way to broadcast this information to ADS-B ground stations. If your aircraft flies at or above 18,000 ft over the U.S., or anywhere internationally, you will be required to use the 1090 MHz frequency using a Mode S Extended Squitter (ES) transponder — such as the GTX 330 ES.

Full website: http://www.garmin.com/us/intheair/ads-b/seven-questions
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Re: Affordable ADS-B out

Postby Merlinspop » Wed Nov 06, 2013 10:08 am

Flocker wrote:He pitched my a deal on a 162. I told him it had to be ADS-B Out 2020 compliant. He told me to add $1,500 to the price, which was the cost to upgrade the 162's GTX-330 to the GTX-330ES.

Get him to sign the contract, specifying "2020 compliant" first, THEN show him that he needs to add that IFR GPS. ;-)
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Re: Affordable ADS-B out

Postby Flocker » Wed Nov 06, 2013 10:47 am

Interesting. Are you saying that the G300 is a non-WAAS GPS?

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Re: Affordable ADS-B out

Postby dstclair » Wed Nov 06, 2013 11:05 am

Nope -- just that it may not provide all the information required for ADS-B out. I didn't ask specifically about the G300 but did with the G3X and Garmin support was pretty specific that only their 'certified' units provided the information to be 2020 compliant. From the G3X literature:
It’s impossible to know what GPS sensors will become available in the future to provide the necessary data to satisfy the ADS-B requirements, but the “ES” capability of the GTX 23 transponder does qualify for the rules the FAA has already published.

I assume the G3X and G300 are similar but may be mistaken.
dave

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Re: Affordable ADS-B out

Postby zaitcev » Thu Nov 07, 2013 4:18 pm

But Dynon says that Skyview will be fully suitable as a position source for 2020 mandate. Is Skyview WAAS-compliant? I didn't think it was.

I think regulation is trickier than just that. There's a bunch of classes of equipment and varying ways to accomplish compliance. Perhaps in Garmin's case it's just the same as WAAS question.

The annoying part about using UAT (aside of being unable to fly to Canada) is that you still need to carry a transponder anyway, although it could be something small like Sandia's STX 165 (1.4 lbs). In case you use 1090ES OUT, the weight of the transponder is put to good use. Also, Dynon's transponder that feeds off Skyview is only 0.5 lbs!

I expect a UAT box to win on cost, but I in cases you fly a weight-limited airplane, a 1090ES solution is something to think about, perhaps.

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Re: Affordable ADS-B out

Postby MrMorden » Thu Nov 07, 2013 8:13 pm

This ADS-B mandate is sure a lot of trouble to go through to allow drones to operate by the thousands in the US airspace. Which seems to be the point.
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Re: Affordable ADS-B out

Postby dstclair » Tue Dec 31, 2013 3:22 pm

Well, I bit the bullet and mounted a Skyguard ADS-B UAT transmitter in my Sting. It appears to work perfectly as I'm getting non-ADS-B traffic on my GDL-39/Garmin 795 combo. The 795 also reports the ground stations are transmitting. Can't really say if the ground stations are receiving me appropriately but its working for my purposes.
dave


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