Sport Pilot Talk

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MovingOn wrote:
Sometimes it's a curse being anal.

I fixed that for ya.

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I've looked at used Skycatcher's for sale and compared their asking prices with say AOPA's Vref valuation, and despite not always being
to put in every option, the difference is very high in most cases.

Got any thoughts on that?

Considering the lack of demand, Cessnas recent comments, and the fact that some of these planes are 2010 and 2011 models I don't see how they can expect prices well above Vref.

I'm probably wrong so are there any better 'blue books' for valuing used models?

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Nomore767 wrote:I've looked at used Skycatcher's for sale and compared their asking prices with say AOPA's Vref valuation, and despite not always being
to put in every option, the difference is very high in most cases.

Got any thoughts on that?

Considering the lack of demand, Cessnas recent comments, and the fact that some of these planes are 2010 and 2011 models I don't see how they can expect prices well above Vref.

I'm probably wrong so are there any better 'blue books' for valuing used models?

The same thing has happened to Flight Design. What I have been told by someone who has sold quite a few used airplanes, is the the person who does the Vref book just set the price based on what he thought it should be. He was offered some actual purchase agreements as a guide, but was not interested in them.

Jesus, who wants to live to 100, never having owned an airplane??

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Or perhaps not as dead as we thought. The quote below is from the blog of the Aviation Access Project.

We earned the trust and an agreement with Cessna to receive their undelivered fleet of 162 Skycatchers. We are so far the only entity to come along with a plausible alternative to their plans of scrapping the planes by end of year. They have postponed their plans to do that, and are now working with us.
We took delivery of the first Skycatcher under this arrangement, which has been located at Flight Center 001 (M33) in Gallatin, TN. We have used it as a proof-of-concept vehicle and for widespread promotional purposes.

See entire article here: http://aviationaccessproject.blogspot.com/

Just when you thought it was safe to go back in the water!!

Spoke with two Cessna dealerships today regarding the Skycatcher.

The one in Georgia deferred me to the dealership for my state. He did offer his trainer for sale, maybe. 'Maybe' heard Cessna might knock $15k off the $149,500 new price tag.

The Carolinas dealer said he hadn't heard that the Skycatcher had been dropped from Cessna's website. Seriously?

I mentioned that I'd just been to LSA Expo and seen a few nice alternative aircraft to the C162 with lower prices. Any deals from Cessna?

The answer was no, and Cessna won't offer equipment upgrades like newer Garmin Gt200 radio, Ads-B, a/p etc. I mentioned RV12 new with all the options, a/p, paint job., ADS-B, Dynon 10", wheel pants etc is $123K and Cessna is $149k and nobody wants it, not even Cessna.

He said He's on a conference call tomorrow with Cessna HQ and will ask, do I have an offer? Yeah, my offer is a new C162 with wheel pants. a/p, Garmin GT200 radio, ADS-B for $123k. He quickly got off the phone saying he'll enquire.

I asked why I should buy a Cessna especially as Cessna have dropped it, dropped it from their web-site, no presence to even try and sell the remaining units…long pause, then…well Cessna have always stood by their product, some mumbling about liability issues and that's about it!

Talked to an acquaintance who had a demo ride at a dealer in a used 2011 model and the engine quit and they restarted it! Odd, because I also talked to someone today who said the same thing had happened at a different airport, different plane. Reason was lack of flying over last couple of years.

The C162 candle is flickering on my list……

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Howard, it sounds to me like you are trying to push on string and effect something at the other end.

Financially speaking, those remaining Skycatchers probably sit on Cessna's books as assets right now. There could be a range of internal issues related to Cessna's financial reporting to Textron that might influence how and when they feel they can face financial reality. Meanwhile, there may still be political fallout internal to Cessna, wherein the dust hasn't settled...or it has, and some resulting internal organizational changes and priorities haven't yet been cemented in place. You'll recall that the GE-trained senior management that now runs Cessna inherited this commercial debacle and probably has no skin in the game. Labor-wise, most if not all the Skycatcher workforce is likely to have been reallocated and/or furloughed, making any subsequent actions that respond to the marketplace (for example, you) harder to address and a/c in the field harder to support. As mentioned above, from a leadership standpoint there may simply be no current consensus within Cessna for what its future direction should be WRT the Skycatcher. I know I'm not very assured when I hear historical references to so many other discontinued models still being supported, as the Skycatcher installed base is terribly small by comparison, the model's value is depressed, and someone somewhere - no doubt in Finance - is no doubt railing at both the cost and organizational difficulty of supporting yet another orphan to a customer audience that's at the low end of the model food chain. Just imagine for a moment what it would take to replace the next Skycatcher door, now that the China production line is down and the tooling is not in use in KS.

If the Skycatcher is the LSA for you, I'm sure you'll find a way to own one, and to do in a way that is at least relatively affordable. But it seems to be other shoes have to drop first if Cessna is going to be your solution. I also marvel a bit at your tenacity. From my limited knowledge, the Skycatcher doesn't seem to deserve it. But regardless of that, good luck on the hunt.

http://www.aopa.org/News-and-Video/All- ... tcher.aspx

Basically, Cessna is not selling any of their inventory and is using the ~80 Skycatchers in inventory for spare parts.

This raises the question as to what happens once the 80 Skycatchers have been scavenged? I think the used market just got a whole lot cheaper.....

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MovingOn wrote:This might actually be good news for SkyCatcher owners. How long would it take to deplete an inventory of 80 spare everythings?

But they only have to burn through 80 of one thing, if it's a big enough thing. I doubt that Cessna will make public how many of each thing they have left, and you'll only find out when the service center calls and gives you the bad news. Even then, though, if an owner can get the registration changed to E-LSA, they can fabricate their own spares, if it came down to it.