How do you handle filling your LSA with auto-gas?

[Nomore767]

Moving on from the 100LL vs ethanol/non-ethanol auto gas for Rotax engines.

I've been thinking about the process of owning a Rotax powered LSA and fueling with auto-gas.

Since there is no auto-gas at any of the airfields that I can find I contemplated the logistics of self-fueling with auto-gas.

I've found several suppliers of non-ethanol 93 octane. Then there is the local gas station's 93 ethanol auto-gas.
Okay so now I want to bring my own auto-gas to the airplane. What are you guys doing in that regard?

I know some have fairly large tanks and buy auto-gas in bulk. First point is that storing the fuel for a period surely will degrade the octane unless of course you go through it fairly rapidly?
If I simply take gas cans to the supply source on the way to the airport, what do you guys do as regards static discharge when fueling from either metal or plastic gas cans? I've seen a robust metal gas can with funnel for about $45 and the regular plastic gas containers for about $20.
I'm curious about the self-fueling process and the risk of discharge. I know the risk isn't high but it only takes one time! I could buy three metal cans or one and a 10 gallon plastic one, to refill, the presumably safer metal can.
Usually the fuel truck or fueling point has grounding wires and attachment clips but I've not seem a grounded gas can.

Then there is the issue of splashing whilst you fuel, definitely an issue if close to the perspex canopy.

Seems that there is much talk about the auto-gas vs 100LL, but nothing much that I can find about the everyday logistics of self-fueling with auto-gas.

In my search for the most hassle free LSA operation, just fueling with 100LL, into an appropriate a/c, seems much more simple than finding suitable ethanol free (or not) auto-gas, then transporting it in cans, then fueling it with grounding issues, then perhaps taking an empty can along so as to borrow the FBO car and go find the local gas station. I know, you can occiasionally use 100LL, but.....just asking!

Any input would be appreciated.

Cheers, Howard.

[deltafox]

Reference: http://www.amazon.com/No-Spill-1450-5-G ... gallon+gas

I bought two of these and generally put 5 gallons in each wing. I don't have any of the issues you mentioned.

[Nomore767]

Reference: http://www.amazon.com/No-Spill-1450-5-G ... gallon+gas

I bought two of these and generally put 5 gallons in each wing. I don't have any of the issues you mentioned.

So, you don't take any precautions regarding a possible static discharge?

Do you carry an empty can so you can pick up auto-gas on a cross-country?

[Jim Stewart]

Two 5-gallon plastic cans. No worries about static electricity other than making sure I'm touching both the aircraft and the gas can before starting to pour.

[designrs]

5-gallon plastic jugs work fine. Get about 4 of them and put 2 each inside a larger steri-lite plastic container (tub) to shield your car from spills and dirt. Fits in most car trunks. Gas needs to be tested for alcohol/ethanol level, not every station is the same. Also beware of vapor lock (or vapor restriction, as noted in a different tread on this forum) which occurs on the first unseasonably wam days of Spring while you are still using Winter formulated auto gas (indiated by low fuel presssure warnings) during that time of year you want to mix with 30% 100LL. Overall your plane will be much happier on MOGAS and you will build upper body muscle moving those 5-gallon jugs!

Also note how easy it is to overfill the PiperSport / SportCruiser, and probably other planes as well. The top "half" of the tank fills up much faster than the bottom "half" which can easily result in over filling. (Don't ask me how I know.)

Test to determine if alcohol is in MOGAS:
http://www.ussportaircraft.com/document ... to_gas.pdf

[ct4me]

tuff jugs are great... 5 gals in 38 seconds.
http://www.amazon.com/Tuff-Jug-5gal-Red ... n+5+gallon

[Jack Tyler]

Howard: First, let's understand your practical Q is even more challenging to answer if the LSA is a high-wing. (A 5-gal jug is ~33# when full, the owner will need a stable platform on which to stand while trying to control the weight at shoulder height, and while adjusting the angle of the jug to some degree as s/he decants the jug. Is a spill really completely unavoidable? Now add tube & fabric construction... Another good reason to own a low-wing plane. <g>)

I addressed this Q at least once before here. We flew the family a/c in the 90's on mogas for ~7 years and our needs varied from flight instruction (less refueling needed as the lesson was local and not at high power settings) to weekend jaunts when we'd return with emptier tanks. Our solution worked well, was inexpensive to buy, would work with high or low wing a/c, and the then-E0 fuel was definitely kinder on spark plugs. I chose a plastic marine fuel tank (westmarine.com) that easily fit inside the car trunk and was far larger than 5 gals (12 gals, as I recall). I purchased a 12V fuel pump (the same type you'll see firewall mounted on many Part 23 a/c and in many boat engine rooms, but of course not certified and so ~$20 new). I wired up a ground wire with clip to the pump body (they come with a contact point for that purpose) and hose-clamped lengths of high-quality vinyl tubing (westmarine.com, not the crap you find at DIY stores) to both ends of the pump. A length of wire with a cigarette plug at the end was crimped/soldered onto the power leads on the pump.

The pump, coiled tubing, ground & power wires were placed in a small cardboard box that fit alongside the marine fuel tank in the car's trunk. On the way to the airport, I'd fill the tank with as much fuel as we needed (based on the last flight). I'd drive up to the plane, remove the cardboard box , attach power and ground wires to the car, and run the hoses to the two tanks (in trunk & plane). I wired a switch in series in the power line, as I recall, so I could end fueling while watching the plane's tank filling. What little fuel didn't drain out of the two vinyl hoses would seep into the cardboard box and evaporate. A much better choice for this would have been a plastic tub. When the marine tank was at home, it was empty and stored in the garage. When the marine tank was at the airport, it had been emptied. The drive from the gas station to the airport was ~5 miles, and ferrying the fuel was a risk I thought easily managed by the route I chose to drive. I think the savings in fuel cost paid for the tank, pump and materials within several months. No heavy lifting, no spills.

[CharlieTango]

I put a reel ( bond cable ) and a coil ( ground cable ) on my fuel trailer so I can bond it to my plane as well as ground it all to the hangar's ground.

The equipment was expensive and bonding alone without grounding would have been the same level of protection that you get from the fuel truck but I have both now.

[howardnmn]

I have two plastic 5 gal jugs I bought at Home Depot. I have big plastic funnel. I buy 10 gal of mogas on way to airport.and put filled jugs in rear passenger footwell in car. At hanger I have a 30 gal "gas caddy" with hand pump that I bought on ebay for a little over $200. At hanger I fill gas caddy from jugs. Then i use the gas caddy's hand pump to feed Remos fuel tank which is about chest high. The gas caddy has a grounding clamp, hose and nozzle and has worked w/o problem. Cheap and cheerful. In the end I find this process less troublesome than taxiing to 100LL fuel pump, better for the rotax, and much less expensive

[CTLSi]

......

[Nomore767]

Thanks guys for all the tips and points.

I get the grounding of the pumps and using a ground wire to earth. The use of plastic containers whilst posing some risk when fueling lawn mowers etc straight from the ungrounded tank is one thing, it's more risky using bigger fuel loads. The static charge comes from the flowing fuel itself as well as the friction from the container.

Locally I found a supplier of non-ethanol 93 octane auto-gas for $4.22 gallon. At my airport, 100LL self-serve is $5.18, less than a $1 per gallon difference. On the other hand 100LL is higher at the metro area airports.

So, this all works when flying in and out of the local airport. When you go on a cross-country do you take an empty can so that you can visit a local garage via the FBO car to pick some 10% ethanol gas before going to the last resort of...gulp...100LL?

Cheer, Howard.

[CTLSi]

......

[CharlieTango]

Grounding without bonding is backwards, if you only do one you should bond the source of the fuel to the recipient.

Its helpful to know that carbon fiber conducts and fiberglass does not. When you are filling your CF aircraft with a plastic jug you are discharging as you touch the skin.

[Merlinspop]

If liked the transfer tank, pump and grounding set up in the pickup. For those without a pickup, here's another option (a bit spendy, though).

http://www.jmesales.com/product/gastrai ... 5,5059.htm

[luckypierre]

......and I'm not putting anything else in a small engine. I'm even thinking of buying a Skycatcher. At least I'll feel safer as far as fuel (100 av gas) is concerned. My reasoning is that I'll be using a fuel that was designed around the engine. I know its not "perfect" and I'd much rather not pay the weight penalty. Rotax, UL, and HKS were all designed around the Eurozone 95 and 98 octane auto fuel (lead free & ethanol free). Why can't we have the same here? California fuel in Rotax creates so many problems.