Impossible Turn

[Kregster]

Thought you might enjoy watching the IMPOSSIBLE TURN. Please don't try this without proper training. This video was shot several months ago during emergency procedure training. This is a great example of the impossible turn done at 450ft. The video was shot at KSNA when runways where number 19L and 1R. We departed 19L and returned (Tear Drop ) 1R. Enjoy

http://youtu.be/2aecQSgiO8g

[CharlieTango]

Thanks, I look for 650'. 450' was doable due to the parallel runway and beginning the turn at the instant of the power failure. In a real failure we need time to begin to react.

[CTLSi]

......

[snaproll]

Thought you might enjoy watching the IMPOSSIBLE TURN. Please don't try this without proper training. This video was shot several months ago during emergency procedure training. This is a great example of the impossible turn done at 450ft. The video was shot at KSNA when runways where number 19L and 1R. We departed 19L and returned (Tear Drop ) 1R. Enjoy

http://youtu.be/2aecQSgiO8g

Good practice... In an actual engine failure, first instinct has to be dropping the nose and maintaining airspeed, second is looking for a place to land, third is execution, and forth is changing your shorts... Get to know your airplane well, i.e.. altitude and speed required to make a 180 or 360 and altitude cost in making the maneuver. Also practice high speed stalls and associated recovery. If you do any canyon flying, hone your skills practicing chandelles and hammerheads. Practice spot landings from various positions in the pattern power off adjusting your glide and pattern to touch down in the same spot - use of flaps/slips to achieve without overshooting. If you stay in practice, your chances are good during your first engine failure. Despite some folks opinions, the chute should be the last resort whether it be a BRS, seat pack, or backpack chute.

[BrianL99]

Despite some folks opinions, the chute should be the last resort whether it be a BRS, seat pack, or backpack chute.

Thinking like that is why people still get killed in airplanes, with perfectly good chutes available to them.

Sorry to offend you, but that's foolish advice.

[3Dreaming]

Despite some folks opinions, the chute should be the last resort whether it be a BRS, seat pack, or backpack chute.

Thinking like that is why people still get killed in airplanes, with perfectly good chutes available to them.

Sorry to offend you, but that's foolish advice.

Brian, I think Don is advocating practicing and using what used to be considered basic flying skills. If those are not going to work, then pull the chute. This is kind of the reverse of what you said. Why pull the chute and be at the mercy of the wind, if you can use your skills and safely land the airplane?

[snaproll]

Despite some folks opinions, the chute should be the last resort whether it be a BRS, seat pack, or backpack chute.

Thinking like that is why people still get killed in airplanes, with perfectly good chutes available to them.

Sorry to offend you, but that's foolish advice.

No offense taken... A chute is the last resort in my opinion, i.e.. use over hostile terrain, night flight where there is no visible landing spot, and structural failure. If there is a clear landing area, use pilot skills and land the bird. The idea is to practice and be prepared for the inevitable engine failure, know how to make that unpowered "spot landing" where there may be only 400 to 500 ft. of flat/unobstructed area, and realize there is no guarantee the chute will actually work - high probability it will - but the possibility exist. Unfortunately, most fatal accidents are pilot error, not engine failures or structural failures.

[CTLSi]

......

[snaproll]

Guess there are some who don't get it.. If there is a good landing spot, then land the airplane. I have a BRS and would use it for a structural failure, hostile terrain, or night flight engine failure where no visible landing spot is available. I would not total an airframe using the BRS when there is an available spot to land. Any pilot who cannot make a dead stick landing in an open field should seek additional training. Pulling the "O MY GOD" handle just because you loose an engine is absurd. Sounds like the advise of a commercial "BUS DRIVER".

[Merlinspop]

Deploying a chute IS the last resort, because you sure aren't going to be able to do much after that.

I don't have any problem with someone who decides that using a chute is the primary course of action in the event of an engine failure not in the vicinity of a runway, but I'd suggest aviating a bit first, if possible, to find the best available place over which to pull the handle.

[3Dreaming]

The idea that there is some basic or old school skill that overrides the use of the chute is bogus. The chutes may not have been available or are still not available on old Cessna's etc. But the presence of and use of the chute is clear. And is not a last resort, but a first resort.

Those fighting the use of chutes don't have them, don't understand why they are an advance in aviation and don't know when they are to be used. Sorta like defending cars from the 50s that didn't have a headrest, padded dashboard, seatbelt or ABS brakes.

Just last week we saw yet another Cirrus owner and his passengers saved by the chute. http://baltimore.cbslocal.com/2014/10/2 ... d-2-lives/

Once again you read one or two words and make a reactionary post. If there wasn't a need for basic pilot skills then why do any training or take a checkride?

Thinking that the chute is the first resort reminds me of a student I once had. I pulled the power to simulate an engine failure while working in the pattern. I pulled it at a point perfect for a downwind to one of the runways. The student turned away from the airport, I ask what are you doing? His reply was, I'm trying to find a field to land in. I ask what is wrong with the airport that is right there. He had been taught by his previous instructor to find a field to land in if the engine quits. If the engine quits on final with the runway made are you going to pull the chute as a first resort or land the airplane? The first resort should be landing safely using basic pilot skills if you can

I don't think anyone in this thread has said the chute is not a good thing. I think Don's Remos has a chute, and I have had 3 aircraft with chutes including my CTLS. The first resort should be landing the aircraft safely using basic pilot skills if you can. If you can't do this then pull the chute.

[drseti]

reminds me of a student I once had. I pulled the power to simulate an engine failure while working in the pattern. I pulled it at a point perfect for a downwind to one of the runways. The student turned away from the airport,

This kind of reminds me of my own reaction when my motorglider instructor killed the engine on takeoff, 300 AGL. My airplane training kicked in, and I set up for a safe straight-ahead landing. He asked "what are you doing?" I said "Landing straight ahead" (there was a good open field at my 1 o'clock). The CFIG asked why not return to the runway? I said we were too low. By now we're 200 AGL, he says "my aircraft," and turns back for a perfect downwind on-runway landing. Kinda changes your perspective about the impossible turn.

Next time around, he chopped power at 600 AGL or so. I began to execute a 180, and set up for a downwind landing on the runway, CFIG asked "why aren't you flying the pattern?" Similar discussion ensued, altitude was lost, after which the CFIG flew a perfect crosswind, downwind, base, and final, landing on the runway.

Gliders are cool! Kinda changes your whole perspective about that impossible turn.

[BrianL99]

If I recall correctly, the exact language in the CIrrus POH is something like: If the aircraft has departed controlled flight, the CAPS is the primary means of recovery. The CAPS is also the only approved method per the POH, to address an inadvertent spin.

Under many circumstances, I don't consider an "engine out" an emergency, unless and until normal engine out procedures fail to resolve the problem. That said, if there's any doubt in the pilot's mind as to his ability to safely land the airplane, pull the chute ... that's what it's there for.

The conventional wisdom in the Cirrus world, was "pull early and pull often".

One you have a life threatening emergency, realize that the airplane now belongs to your insurance company and save your butt, not the airplane.

Attached are some excerpts from the certification. process on the Cirrus SR20. The compete document is at: http://www.peter2000.co.uk/aviation/mis ... report.pdf

Just my opinion, your mileage may vary.

[drseti]

I'm not sure an engine failure, by itself, constitutes "has departed controlled flight."

[BrianL99]

I'm not sure an engine failure, by itself, constitutes "has departed controlled flight."

As I said, I don't even think it's an emergency, unless the pilot decides he may not be able to safely land the airplane.