Aerotrek A220/240... thoughts?

[comperini]

If we're talking about folders in general, then here's a list
- CGS Hawk - okay this is pushing it, folding requires 2 people and disconnecting controls

Unfortunately, now out of business

http://cgsaviation.com

[gregorp]

Hi,
I am the owner/builder of a Eurofox 912S (Aerotrek 220 in USA) in the United Kingdom. A few of my thoughts if they are of any help here.
The Eurofox is only available as a kit in the UK due to our rather different legislation. I understand it is only available ready to fly in the rest of the world.
I have now flown about 80 hours since completion last year and I have to say that it is the most delightful aircraft I have flown (I would say that wouldn't I?). I have 17000 + hours, Royal Air Force and airlines plus various GA types over the years.
The quality of the factory finished parts is superb. To build the kit you first have to go to the factory in Nitra ,Slovakia where you cover the already welded and painted frame. Then it goes into the factory paintshop and gets a beautiful paint job. Everyone who sees my aircraft comments on the quality of the finish. The bare airframe is then delivered by truck to the UK.
The Eurofox has only been available in the UK for the past 3 years or so but has been so popular that I understand the UK allocation has sold out for 2015 and now well into 2016. Over 50 sold here so far.
I was so impressed by the craftsmanship of the guys in the factory, only about 25 of them, but all very dedicated to their jobs. Apparently, the production rate is kept at a fixed level despite demand, to ensure quality and to make sure that in the event of a downturn in demand no-one is made redundant.
Further back in this thread someone was asking about an autopilot. I am fairly certain that it is not available as an option and is probably the last thing that you would want on the aircraft. The handling is very light and my aeroplane will fly hands-off easily when properly trimmed. Take off and landing performance is amazing. In the UK we now have four engine options, Rotax 912 (80hp) 912S (100hp) 912iS (100hp injected) and 914 (115 hp). Don't know if they are all available in the US.
I suggest anyone interested takes a look at the UK website www.eurofoxuk.co.uk. which is fairly comprehensive.
Safe flying,

Pete

[Wm.Ince]

Pete,

You are correct, an autopilot is not available on the US version, the Aerotrek 220/240. For longer flight segments (2 hours plus), an autopilot is a personal must for me.

Additionally, a BRS (parachute recovery system) is optional.

The airplane also has a lower max gross weight limit than the FAR light sport limit of 1320 US pounds.

A nice little airplane though. Before I bought my Flight Design CTSW, I seriously considered it.

[Jack Tyler]

Pete, thanks for your comments. Since folks aren't building Eurofoxes/Aerotreks here in the USA, it's helpful to get a peek 'behind the screen' at how you viewed their construction at the factory.

A question for you that I don't hear discussed much on this forum: How do you find the flying when dealing with the UK's weather? I'm speaking specifically of the lower temps in which you fly (do you have cabin heating?), the frequency of wet weather (how dry does it stay if not hangared and when flying in wet VMC?) and it's ability to cope with mild to moderate turbulence (when you are forced to deal with it)?

[Hambone]

Thanks for the comments, Pete.

I'm still on the fence regarding Aerotrek vs Kitfox. The Kitfox is slightly more expensive, but appears to be more robust and with a higher gross weight, which to me is a factor when considering backcountry flying/camping.

[drseti]

Given their shared history, the AeroTrek and the Kitfox are virtually indistinguishable to me (they were both derived from the Avid Flyer). The difference in max gross weight is a function of how they were certified with ASTM, and is certainly a consideration. Robustness should be very much the same. I've flown both, and can't really tell any difference in the air.

[MrMorden]

The airplane also has a lower max gross weight limit than the FAR light sport limit of 1320 US pounds.

I would not see that as necessarily a negative. I have a friend with an Avid Flyer. Max gross is something like 1150lb and his useful load is significantly higher than mine with my CTSW. IIRC the empty airplane weight is ~530lb and the useful is ~620lb

Of course weight does affect how it handles wind and turbulence.

[gregorp]

From my own experience the Eurofox /Aerotrek is in a different league qualitywise compared with the Avid and Kitfox. And the performance is better too. At least 5 knots faster. Not sure about your legal weights but mine is certified at 560 Kgs AUW . With full tanks, (86 litres) 2 large people and 20 kgs of bags it still doesn't max out. Also you cannot load it out of trim if you stick to the limits. Not many aircraft you can say that about. The Eurofox is also being used in the UK by several gliding clubs as a tug,for gliders up to 750 kgs auw. It has replaced a Pawnee at one club. Not bad on 100 hp.
conversions 560 kgs = 1234 lbs 750 kgs =1653 lbs 86 ltrs=22 US galls 20 kgs =44lbs

[Hambone]

Pete

Can you elaborate on the quality differences between Eurofox/Aerotrek and Kitfox?

[gregorp]

The obvious differences are in the corrosion proofing, cockpit furnishings, paint finish. The Eurofox is much cleaned up aerodynamically and the wing has been tweaked in the low-speed wind tunnel at Brno making it much more efficient. The windscreen fitting is also much refined. I suggest you look at the UK website and the comments of Adrian Lloyd who I believe has 1000 hrs on Kitfox's. it is the last item on the "Testimonials" page. www.eurofoxuk.co.uk

[AlanR]

Hi Pete,
I suspect you are not comparing like with like. There is only 1 Kitfox 7SS currently flying in the UK.(3 more in late build though). Agreed if you compare older Kitfox...4's etc then the Eurofox is way ahead. Personally and having had various conversations with Roger Cornwall, Eurofox UKabout buying a Eurofox I personally think the Kitfoxx 7SS is a better all round package!
The Eurofox is loosely based on the Avid. Kitfox has thicker fuse tubing, Higher Max weight...Kitfox 7SS in the UK MAUW 636kg and has a lot more spacious baggage area,..and even better it is substantially cheaper even after importing one from Homedale Idaho to the UK.

[Hambone]

Anyone using an Aerotrek/Kitfox for backcountry flying? After watching many videos, I'm intrigued by the possibility of combining aviation and camping, especially if I can tow the aircraft in a trailer behind an RV.

Are the Aerotreks/Kitfoxes man enough for this? With tundra tires, do the taildraggers have some of the backcountry potential of a Super Cub or Carbon Cub?

[Jack Tyler]

Ham, the short answer is 'yes'...but of course it depends on how much gear you think you need, the airstrip features, the realities of where you want to fly vs. the slower speeds of these a/c (e.g. with oversize tires) to get you there and more. One example: a long-time 182 owner I met swapped over to an AeroTrek to continue backcountry camping. The 182 is a common site in backcountry settings, but she felt the AeroTrek was a feasible alternative (for their load out) while also cheaper to operate. Obviously, she bought a tailwheel. Two other examples are two friends' Just Highlanders. They've both flown them around the high country and, despite the 'aura' the Highlander has picked up for being an extreme performer, it's fundamentally the same a/c with the same power as the other models you are considering. (And BTW, while not legal the Just folks do build completed Highlanders, as do other Just dealers. The E-AB rules seem to have become very squishy lately, despite a 2013 procedure introduced by the FAA to supposedly clamp down on E-AB 3rd party builders.

As I mentioned before (so apologies for the redundancy), don't underestimate the cost and complexity of hauling a LSA around the country. E.g. one of those Highlander owners just finished such an episode, pulling a trailer big enough for that a/c behind his diesel powered Ford F250, while visiting places between Florida and Montana. Never again, he concluded. Lots of wear & tear on the rig, 50-55 mph speeds were the prudent norm, the midwest high winds were a handful, etc. Do-able? Absolutely. Fun? Easy? Cheap? Not so much. I'd caution you not to be misled by LSA owners who tow their a/c behind their F150 trucks between the local airport and home occasionally and say it's easy.

[Hambone]

Thanks, Jack. As usual, great advice! Perhaps towing a lightweight high-sided trailer in potentially high winds isn't the smartest thing to do.

I'm planning on spending a week or so at Stick and Rudder Aviation in Boise to get my taildragger endorsement and backcountry training, and to see if the Kitfox/Aerotrek-style LSA and backcountry flying are for me.

[Merlinspop]

Thanks, Jack. As usual, great advice! Perhaps towing a lightweight high-sided trailer in potentially high winds isn't the smartest thing to do.

I'm planning on spending a week or so at Stick and Rudder Aviation in Boise to get my taildragger endorsement and backcountry training, and to see if the Kitfox/Aerotrek-style LSA and backcountry flying are for me.

Sounds like a great plan! When you go, take pictures and provide feedback!