162's Coming

Talk about airplanes! At last count, there are 39 (and growing) FAA certificated S-LSA (special light sport aircraft). These are factory-built ready to fly airplanes. If you can't afford a factory-built LSA, consider buying an E-LSA kit (experimental LSA - up to 99% complete).

Moderator: drseti

ArionAv8or
Posts: 271
Joined: Sat Mar 20, 2010 11:42 am

Post by ArionAv8or »

Has anyone seen this one yet?

IDENTIFICATION
Regis#: 5204R Make/Model: C162 Description: CESSNA 162 SKYCATCHER
Date: 02/18/2011 Time: 2136

Event Type: Incident Highest Injury: None Mid Air: N Missing: N
Damage: Minor

LOCATION
City: PHOENIX State: AZ Country: US

DESCRIPTION
AIRCRAFT WHILE INFLIGHT, THE LEFT DOOR SEPARATED FROM THE AIRCRAFT, PHOENIX
DEER VALLEY, AZ

INJURY DATA Total Fatal: 0
# Crew: 1 Fat: 0 Ser: 0 Min: 0 Unk:
# Pass: 0 Fat: 0 Ser: 0 Min: 0 Unk:
# Grnd: Fat: 0 Ser: 0 Min: 0 Unk:

WEATHER: NOT REPORTED

OTHER DATA
Activity: Unknown Phase: Other Operation: OTHER


FAA FSDO: SCOTTSDALE, AZ (WP07) Entry date: 02/22/2011
User avatar
bryancobb
Posts: 463
Joined: Tue Jun 02, 2009 12:35 pm
Location: Cartersville Georgia

UhOh!

Post by bryancobb »

I couldn't find the narrative on the NTSB website, but if there's a few more of these, it's ALL OVER for the Skycatcher!
Bryan Cobb
Sport Pilot CFI
Commercial/Instrument Airplane
Commercial Rotorcraft Helicopter
Manufacturing Engineer II, Meggitt Airframe Systems, Fuel Systems & Composites Group
Cartersville, Ga
[email protected]
User avatar
Daidalos
Posts: 218
Joined: Thu Feb 12, 2009 12:19 pm
Location: KHWV

Post by Daidalos »

ArionAv8or wrote:Has anyone seen this one yet?

IDENTIFICATION
Regis#: 5204R Make/Model: C162 Description: CESSNA 162 SKYCATCHER
Date: 02/18/2011 Time: 2136

Event Type: Incident Highest Injury: None Mid Air: N Missing: N
Damage: Minor

LOCATION
City: PHOENIX State: AZ Country: US

DESCRIPTION
AIRCRAFT WHILE INFLIGHT, THE LEFT DOOR SEPARATED FROM THE AIRCRAFT, PHOENIX
DEER VALLEY, AZ

INJURY DATA Total Fatal: 0
# Crew: 1 Fat: 0 Ser: 0 Min: 0 Unk:
# Pass: 0 Fat: 0 Ser: 0 Min: 0 Unk:
# Grnd: Fat: 0 Ser: 0 Min: 0 Unk:

WEATHER: NOT REPORTED

OTHER DATA
Activity: Unknown Phase: Other Operation: OTHER


FAA FSDO: SCOTTSDALE, AZ (WP07) Entry date: 02/22/2011
I was a subject of a thread on the Red Board. A lot of anti-LSA sentiment by some pilots there. There were some negative comments about the construction. They were speculating about the door hinges but nobody had the facts. The plane can be flown with the doors open at slow speeds but there is no indication of the position when the door came off.

Edit: I just checked the POH and I was wrong flying with doors open is prohibited
Last edited by Daidalos on Fri Feb 25, 2011 7:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Marcus - WA2DCI
PP ASEL Instrument

Daidalos Greek: Δαίδαλος
Remember don't fly too close to the Sun.
User avatar
zaitcev
Posts: 633
Joined: Tue Jan 05, 2010 11:38 pm
Location: Austin, TX
Contact:

Re: UhOh!

Post by zaitcev »

bryancobb wrote:I couldn't find the narrative on the NTSB website, but if there's a few more of these, it's ALL OVER for the Skycatcher!
People continue to fly Zenits that have wings falling off, and you think doors will make a difference? If anything, the narrative is going to be how China always builds garbage, but nothing like this could happen to a quality domestic airplane like X-air.
Cub flyer
Posts: 582
Joined: Sun Sep 10, 2006 8:30 pm

Post by Cub flyer »

I could tell some X-air H stories. None good. How is it domestic built in india?

Kit built not SLSA.
The SLSA hopefully fixed things.

I've not looked at a 162 close but is the upper door hinge a piano hinge.
I've had them vibrate the pin out after a while. Wonder if that was the trouble. A hammer and vise can fix that.
User avatar
drseti
Posts: 7227
Joined: Sat Nov 28, 2009 6:42 pm
Location: Lock Haven PA
Contact:

Re: UhOh!

Post by drseti »

bryancobb wrote:if there's a few more of these, it's ALL OVER for the Skycatcher!
I don't think so. It's a testament to the relative safety of LSAs that there were no injuries, and only minor damage to the aircraft. Sure, having a door depart the aircraft in flight is an inconvenience, as well as an embarrassment, but that's been known to happen to certified aircraft, with much more drastic results.
The opinions posted are those of one CFI, and do not necessarily represent the FAA or its lawyers.
Prof H Paul Shuch
PhD CFII DPE LSRM-A/GL/WS/PPC iRMT
AvSport LLC, KLHV
[email protected]
AvSport.org
facebook.com/SportFlying
SportPilotExaminer.US
User avatar
bryancobb
Posts: 463
Joined: Tue Jun 02, 2009 12:35 pm
Location: Cartersville Georgia

Can Hardlly Wait

Post by bryancobb »

When I was tootin' the horn, that the 162 was gonna become "the standard," that was based on it being widely available for rent.

This incident, is going to seriously setback that availability, especially if it happens a few more times.

I can hardly wait for the NTSB ruling as well as Cessna's, to see if it was a Chinese rivet problem, a design problem, a workmanship problem, or a pilot/passenger mistake.

One thing I was sort-of excited about was the way the struts and doors was out of the way, making entry easy. I didn't really like the fact that flying around with them open was approved.

My attitude can best be described as being very suprised that this hapened. I really thought Cessna's experience and QC oversight was going to result in the Skycatcher being fielded in big numbers without any major problems.
Bryan Cobb
Sport Pilot CFI
Commercial/Instrument Airplane
Commercial Rotorcraft Helicopter
Manufacturing Engineer II, Meggitt Airframe Systems, Fuel Systems & Composites Group
Cartersville, Ga
[email protected]
User avatar
RyanShort1
Posts: 154
Joined: Tue Aug 17, 2010 9:40 am
Location: Burnet / Austin, TX
Contact:

Post by RyanShort1 »

I'm on the Red Board, too, but I'm not a 162 hater. Right now I've got three students in an Apollo Fox, and the aircraft is growing on me. I'd personally like to fly a 162 myself, and see what it's like. Of course, I'd also like to see what the construction is like.

Ryan
Independent Flight Instructor at http://www.TexasTailwheel.com. Come fly tailwheel LSA's.
Cub flyer
Posts: 582
Joined: Sun Sep 10, 2006 8:30 pm

Post by Cub flyer »

At least now they know the door won't take off the tail or strut.

I agree it won't hurt them, Probably a SB to check some part on the early S/N and then there will be a modification done at Yengling on the airplanes being assembled.

Door problem does not bother me if it's known and fixed. Some random primary structural failures would.

The left window/door assembly blew off the Citabria when it was new.

My father landed in a field and had some kid on a dirt bike give him a ride to pick it up in the woods. he reinstalled it and flew on. Said the dirt bike ride was the scariest part. I've blown the sliding window out of the cub doing slips with the door open. Learned to slip the other way.

Personally I like front hinged doors better. I can open them about 8" when taxing in the summer. I bang my head on top hinged doors.

A split door is great. Swing the top up and rest your elbow on the lower door sill. No feeling of falling out and it cools great in the summer.

The skydive 182 door swings up. If it pops open it goes up to the wing with a bang. A little opposite rudder swings it back down. No gas strut like the Skycatcher. I'm not sure how far you need to lean out to close the door. Probably just land with it open.
3Dreaming
Posts: 3107
Joined: Sun Jan 10, 2010 6:13 pm
Location: noble, IL USA

Post by 3Dreaming »

I know that some early CT's were delivered with removable hing pins for flight with the doors off. Seems the problem is it is not approved in the manual. I've seen the Right door opened in flight to take pictures out of, but have heard that if you open the Left door in flight it will depart. This was the Left door that they lost, so it might have just accidently got opened and departed because of the spiralling slip stream.
roger lee
Posts: 807
Joined: Tue Dec 08, 2009 11:47 am
Location: Tucson, Az. Ryan Airfield (KRYN)

CT doors

Post by roger lee »

Hi 3D,

Not quite true about the left door on CT's. I have a friend that is a photographer and he has been opening doors on his CTSW for 900 hrs now. He has a stop on the bottom of the wing for the door to rest against. It is at 50 knots with 30 flaps. Yes some of the CT's did come with removable hinge pins, but I don't think you see that any more. It's just too windy in the cabin, plus you have to fly less than 90 knots if the doors are off. The real issue here for the CT anyway is that it will cause cracks over time around the door if done over multiple flights. The CT has 3 long locking pins that protrude into the door frame plus the hinges. (I know you know this, but I'm writing it so others will know) If the door lever is forward in its closed and locked position a CT door will never come open.
Roger Lee
Tucson, Az.
LSRM-A, Rotax Instructor & Rotax IRC
(520) 574-1080 (Home) Try Home First.
(520) 349-7056 (Cell)
User avatar
bryancobb
Posts: 463
Joined: Tue Jun 02, 2009 12:35 pm
Location: Cartersville Georgia

Me too

Post by bryancobb »

I too agree that a door flying off in flight if it don't hit the tail is no big deal unless it lands in a crowd of folks.

My concern is that Cessna will over-react and stop deliveries for a year or two, which will cut into the "available at an FBO near you" concept I discussed earlier.
Bryan Cobb
Sport Pilot CFI
Commercial/Instrument Airplane
Commercial Rotorcraft Helicopter
Manufacturing Engineer II, Meggitt Airframe Systems, Fuel Systems & Composites Group
Cartersville, Ga
[email protected]
flyboy2007
Posts: 81
Joined: Sun Jan 27, 2008 3:18 pm
Location: wisconsin

Post by flyboy2007 »

Cub flyer wrote:I could tell some X-air H stories. None good. How is it domestic built in india?

Kit built not SLSA.
The SLSA hopefully fixed things.

I've not looked at a 162 close but is the upper door hinge a piano hinge.
I've had them vibrate the pin out after a while. Wonder if that was the trouble. A hammer and vise can fix that.
A good preflight would probably help a little too!
"Keep on Draggin"
N918KT
Posts: 451
Joined: Sat Jan 23, 2010 6:49 pm

Post by N918KT »

Has anyone who has never flown a Skycatcher is jealous of the ones who did? I am.

Recently, the receptionist at Aero Safety Training flight school in Lincoln Park Airport told me on phone that the Skycatcher delivery for that flight school has been delayed again until the fall. How disappointing!!! I guess that leaves me with no choice but to learn to fly in Trenton where they have a Storm Century LSA. Yes I do want to fly the Skycatcher but if I wanna get started on my SP training ASAP, I gotta learn to fly at Trenton.
User avatar
tu16
Posts: 110
Joined: Thu Feb 18, 2010 9:17 pm
Location: Bellevue, WA

Post by tu16 »

N918KT wrote:Has anyone who has never flown a Skycatcher is jealous of the ones who did? I am.
:) I'm not jealous... I love our school's Tecnam Sierra. Or maybe I'm just a sucker for low wings... ;) Is there anything to be jealous for in Skycatcher? Too heavy for fun or instruction, imho... My school's instructors and DPEs would have a hard time to fit in along with my 250lbs into Skycatcher.... ;) Not a big problem with our Tecnam 520lbs useful load (with BRS installed)
Post Reply