Lightning LS-1

[CTLSi]

...

[rgstubbsjr]

I've sent a note to Arion, hopefully I"ll get a dialogue going.
I discovered a CFI with about 50 hours in the Lightning. He says it requires a light touch to fly. No ham hands allowed, especially on approach.

[drseti]

He says it requires a light touch to fly. No ham hands allowed, especially on approach.

I've found that to be the case for each of the dozen or so modern LSA models I've flown.

[rgstubbsjr]

Hasn't posted in that long? Dang.
I'd really like to talk to someone who actually owns one, instead of another "Golly gee wow! This is a great looking airplane" review.

I was determined to by an Arion Lightning before I bought my Sting. I talked to most everyone who had one for sale ... & couldn't find a single one without damage history. To me, there was message there.

Nick Otterback is the guy who runs Arion and he's a good guy and always seem to answer his phone and is ready to answer questions.

Have you subscribed to the Arion Lightning List? There's tons of information, published monthly.

So, tell us about your Sting.
What's good, what's bad?

[AJChenMPH]

So, tell us about your Sting.
What's good, what's bad?

He started a thread here (not exactly where I would have looked first...I just happened to remember it's there):

http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=3818

[zaitcev]

I was determined to by an Arion Lightning before I bought my Sting. I talked to most everyone who had one for sale ... & couldn't find a single one without damage history. To me, there was message there.

I know someone who has an Esqual that wasn't pranged yet. Does that count? Clearly it's older than all those LS-1s that you considered. It was one of the 6 planes they built before renaming into LS-1.

[zaitcev]

Overall I think the Jab engine gives you nice useful load, on top of a proper design. You'll notice that CTLS easily reaches the same speed on the power of Rotax 912, while dragging a wider cross-section. However, once you need to climb over a cloud or a mountain pass, you'll see what Jabiru is good for (as long as you can keep it cool ).

[MrMorden]

Overall I think the Jab engine gives you nice useful load, on top of a proper design. You'll notice that CTLS easily reaches the same speed on the power of Rotax 912, while dragging a wider cross-section. However, once you need to climb over a cloud or a mountain pass, you'll see what Jabiru is good for (as long as you can keep it cool ).

That's the rub with the Jabiru 3300...heat. I was planning to put one in the Sonex I was building, but I knew about the heat issues going in. A buddy of mine has one in his Waiex (Y-tailed Sonex), and he says in the summer here in Georgia he has to be off the ground within ten minutes of starting the engine or his temps are getting to the redline. I've heard similar stories from others as well.

Not a bad engine at all, it just has its quirks. Rotec makes liquid-cooled heads for the 3300 also, and that supposedly makes the engine really hard to overheat, at the cost of about 10-12lb more weight.

[Jack Tyler]

Agreed. If you want an earful on the problematic history of the Jabiru, and especially its heat issues, join sportaviation.com.au or spend some time with small aircraft pilots in Oz where the Jab is made. The Jab builders in Bundaburg, QLD have had a hit & miss affair over the years with changes they have made to the engine but heat problems have seen little resolution.

[designrs]

Agreed. If you want an earful on the problematic history of the Jabiru, and especially its heat issues, join sportaviation.com.au or spend some time with small aircraft pilots in Oz where the Jab is made. The Jab builders in Bundaburg, QLD have had a hit & miss affair over the years with changes they have made to the engine but heat problems have seen little resolution.

..and there you go. Once again, more excellent information by Jack that sums up the issue.

[MrMorden]

Agreed. If you want an earful on the problematic history of the Jabiru, and especially its heat issues, join sportaviation.com.au or spend some time with small aircraft pilots in Oz where the Jab is made. The Jab builders in Bundaburg, QLD have had a hit & miss affair over the years with changes they have made to the engine but heat problems have seen little resolution.

IIRC, the older solid lifter engines seem to have less problems than the newer hydraulic lifter engines. Not sure if that's a general mechanical truth or related to heat though.

[rsteele]

A friend had a 3300 in a Zenith HD. He had a ton of heat issues but finally got the ducting right and now that's all good. That took about of year of test flying. Now there are other issues, something about replacing studs with through bolts. His is a very early model (non-hydrolic lifters). I don't know if these issues are sorted out in the newer versions are not. Seems like it might one day be a really nice engine - there are just a lot of "betas" out there flying. At this point I think he regrets choosing the Jab, even though the plane will climb a 2000ft/min on a warm day.

Ron

[zaitcev]

Peter Kkroaje's favourite solution is to use a separate plenum on top of the engine that is separate from the cowling and replaces the usualy cowl+baffling system. I think he has those things for sale. The plenum has deflectors inside that get trimmed to provide balanced airflow according to a given airplane's organization. The homebuilder is expected to trim those deflectors based on results of test flights.

Note that issues of the kind are known to happen on certificated airplanes, too. In particular Grumman Tiger is known for being sensitive to proper baffling, with or without LoPresti cowl.

I know a guy who has a Jab 3300 in Sonex and he says there aren't any issues with his installation. Perhaps it has something to do with Sonex being relatively speedy.

[snaproll]

Have seen quite a few Jabiru installations. Most with heat problems were either (1) improperly baffled or (2) lacked the cowl exit area for sufficient hot airflow exit. As a general rule during design and testing, the optimum exit is 150% of cowling entry area. Baffling to provide sufficient downdraft past all cylinders works. In some early designs with older 6 and 8 cylinder Lycoming engines, intake air was split (ducted) between front and rear cylinders to maintain even cooling. Exhaust augmentation added to cooling on some early designs also. Nobody likes running cylinder head temps near redline as oil temps also push the limit.

[designrs]

It just amazes me that there are such great performance numbers with the Jab, yet the installation applications appear to be kind of hit or miss (with serious heat consequences). Seems like with the performance incentive the issues should have been resolved ASAP and everyone would have jumped on it. 120 kts cruise easily, 2,000 ft/min climb... Yeah Baby!

That said, even if the Lightning / Jab were 100% reliable, solid & supported with a strong demand, as sexy as it is, I knew that it was waaaay to slick for me as a new pilot and first-time plane owner.