My experience buying a new CTSW

Talk about airplanes! At last count, there are 39 (and growing) FAA certificated S-LSA (special light sport aircraft). These are factory-built ready to fly airplanes. If you can't afford a factory-built LSA, consider buying an E-LSA kit (experimental LSA - up to 99% complete).

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CharlieTango
Posts: 1000
Joined: Sat Jun 10, 2006 10:04 am
Location: Mammoth Lakes, California

Post by CharlieTango »

Jim Stewart wrote:Why do you feel that the throttle position would have affected the outcome of the incident? ...
the audio was out and transition of control was not happening, instead a fight for control with conflicting inputs was taking place.

the instructor removing thorp's hand from the throttle was a hard to mistake signal that control was transitioning.

now remember there was a sink from 15'-20' resulting in a tail strike and tail damage as well as a pronounced bounce. so ask yourself, if thorp's account is correct on this point why would the instructor close the wide open throttle?

it would be a split second decision and one possible answer is that with tail damage it might be better to get on the ground then to go around?
Jim Stewart
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Joined: Thu Oct 12, 2006 6:49 pm

Post by Jim Stewart »

Sorry I didn't make my point more clear. I was referring to Thorp's implication that Tom's technique of flying approaches in general with the throttle closed contributed to the incident. He seemed to be saying that if some throttle had been used during the approach the whole thing might have been avoided. That's what I can't understand.

I also wonder why the incident report didn't state that the audio was out. Seems pretty relevant to me.
thorp
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Joined: Mon Dec 08, 2008 7:12 pm
Location: California

Post by thorp »

Jim Stewart wrote:Sorry I didn't make my point more clear. I was referring to Thorp's implication that Tom's technique of flying approaches in general with the throttle closed contributed to the incident. He seemed to be saying that if some throttle had been used during the approach the whole thing might have been avoided. That's what I can't understand.

I also wonder why the incident report didn't state that the audio was out. Seems pretty relevant to me.
I was suggesting that using a power-off glide with 30-degrees was the wrong approach for the wind conditions. You have to realize that this is now Monday-morning quarterbacking, because I was new to this type of aircraft and unfamiliar with it at the time. However, I definitely realized at the time that the wind condtions were bad, and I did not want to fly any more that day. If the check-out pilot had bothered to accept that fact, instead of continuing to try to get me to take the plane home that day, this incident would never have have occured and I would eventually have been able to go flying with Fred, who was much more experienced in type.

On the subject of the radio, the FAA inspector left it out because the check out pilot did not mention it. It seems that the FAA just harmonized our two accounts and left out where we disagreed.

Also, it should be pointed out that it was only after the FAA report was filed that the check out pilot finally agreed with me on the audio being out when he checked it for himself and discovered that I had correctly reported the problem.

In any case, I think that we need to have more consistent training on this type of aircraft, and my experience over on the CTflyer forum is that the opinions are all over the place, and often downplay the unique handling characteristics of the CT.

That is a disservice to those interested in the CT, because we want safe pilots, and they need to know about these issues and they need to really listen to what Flight Design is telling them about how to handle the CT.

Here is just one example of what I am talking about:

FD says in the AOI (aka POH) that you should not attempt 40-deg flap landings until a year of experience with he plane, but you will find all kinds of statments on the CTflyer forum that show their disagreement with that statement and routinely suggest that inexperienced flyers can easily and quickly learn how to do 40-deg flap landings.

That is total nonsense. It takes a lot of skill, and that is just one reason why highly skilled pilots like Ed (aka CharlieT) are good examples of this well known maxim:

CAN DO, CANT TEACH

The CT is a great airplane and fun to fly, but it has a dark side you need to respect.
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CharlieTango
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Joined: Sat Jun 10, 2006 10:04 am
Location: Mammoth Lakes, California

Post by CharlieTango »

thorp wrote: It takes a lot of skill, and that is just one reason why highly skilled pilots like Ed (aka CharlieT) are good examples of this well known maxim:

CAN DO, CANT TEACH
the well known quote is "Those who can do. Those who can't teach"
given that you area a ground instructor i think this quote describes you. it has never been determined whether or not i can teach. i was invited to teach a class at deep springs college, but i didn't do it. a friend of mine taught there for a time, commuting in his 2005 ctsw and using their driveway as a strip.
thorp wrote:
The CT is a great airplane and fun to fly, but it has a dark side you need to respect.
you do have a flair for the dramatic.
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