Maybe I need to re-think what Aircraft I want?

[NCPilot]

For the longest time, I've had my eyes set on the RV-12, it's a solid aircraft created by the best manufacturer of kits in the aviation industry. Unfortunately, the kit (plus the shop I'll need to build and tools that I'll need to buy) puts the RV-12 out of my price range. Well, that's not entirely true, I can afford the RV-12, after about seven to ten years of saving up, which is not a good prospect for me. Yes I am a bit impatient.

So I'm looking at another kit to build, and I'm looking for advice. Here are my requirement for the aircraft.

Kit aircraft that fits the LSA rules and regulations.
Good aircraft to fly around in in the Southeast (Mostly NC and SC). Honestly this would be about 95-98% of my mission.
A good aircraft to take to AirVenture and Sebring.
All metal aircraft (this is preferred, but I won't rule out a tube and fabric aircraft)
Trailerable. I do have plans to store the aircraft in the shop at my house to save on hanger cost.
First time builder friendly.
EDIT: Can be upgraded for the ADS-B thing that's coming in 2020.
And I guess the most important part is that it's fun to fly.

So any thoughts or suggestion?

[zaitcev]

I did quite a bit of research out of similar parameters and it all points to this: Sonex is the only choice. But I'm curious what the others think.

[drseti]

And I guess the most important part is that it's fun to fly.

Ah, that's the easiest part. Any aircraft is fun to fly!

[NCPilot]

And I guess the most important part is that it's fun to fly.

Ah, that's the easiest part. Any aircraft is fun to fly!

That is true.

Looking at Kitfoxes and Murphy Air aircrafts right now. I figured out the main problem with the RV-12. It doesn't really allow you to build on a budget.

[jnmeade]

http://www.sportpilot.org/learn/lsa/likely_lsa.html

What is your budget in money and time? How much work can you do yourself?

[drseti]

Looking at Kitfoxes and Murphy Air aircrafts right now.

I have no experience with the Murphy. The first LSA I flew when I started making the transition four years ago was a Kitfox taildragger. They are a hoot!

[jnmeade]

Keep in mind that you can buy a perfectly airworthy Champ for $25,000. It and several other Standard category airplanes meet LSA critera per FAR 1.1 so you can fly them with a sport pilot certificate or under sport pilot privileges. Some others off the top of my head are J3 Cub, some Ercoupes. Be very careful with standard category aircraft that they have not been given a weight increase that takes them out of LSA range. I saw one Champ where that was the case. Once out, never back to an LSA.
Still, you want cheap, this is a way to start.
With an understanding CFI, you can do much of the work under supervision so long as s/he signs it off.

[drseti]

Just as a reminder here (I know it's been said before):

Yes, as a Sport Pilot, there are certain certified aircraft you can indeed fly. Certain Champs, Cubs Luscombes, Ercoupes, and Taylorcraft qualify. But, without a PPL, you cannot do even normally authorized preventive maintenance on them. The chief advantage of an E-AB is that you can do all maintenance, plus any modifications that do not take it outside of the LSA performance limits. And if you meet the 51% rule, you can even get a repairman certificate and do your own annual condition inspections.

[Dangeruss]

I like the Zenith Zodiac XL. All metal, and specifically for the first time sport pilot home builder. The quickbuild kit is $16k, completed airplane is prolly around $25k? I think Sonex would be my second choice.


http://zenithair.com/zodiac/xl/features1.html

http://zenithair.com/zodiac/xl/xl-price.html

[NCPilot]

I like the Zenith Zodiac XL. All metal, and specifically for the first time sport pilot home builder. The quickbuild kit is $16k, completed airplane is prolly around $25k? I think Sonex would be my second choice.


http://zenithair.com/zodiac/xl/features1.html

http://zenithair.com/zodiac/xl/xl-price.html

Eh, This is the main reason why I haven't really looked at the Zenith Zodiac.

[jnmeade]

Certain Champs, Cubs Luscombes, Ercoupes, and Taylorcraft qualify. But, without a PPL, you cannot do even normally authorized preventive maintenance on them.

Paul is right that the owner of the above standard certificated airplanes has to have a certain pilot certificate to sign off the work. See (g) below, where the sport pilot guy is cut out of the loop.

FAR Part 43.3:
(g) Except for holders of a sport pilot certificate, the holder of a pilot certificate issued under part 61 may perform preventive maintenance on any aircraft owned or operated by that pilot which is not used under part 121, 129, or 135 of this chapter. The holder of a sport pilot certificate may perform preventive maintenance on an aircraft owned or operated by that pilot and issued a special airworthiness certificate in the light-sport category.

It seems that even a recreational pilot can do and sign off preventive maintenance on his J3 Cub.

If a person has a mechanic or repairman willing to provide the oversight, however, the sport pilot can DO the work on the standard certificated airplane but not sign it off. (I see this in flying clubs around here, where some of the members are quite competent to perform various tasks and do so under supervision.):

(d) A person working under the supervision of a holder of a mechanic or repairman certificate may perform the maintenance, preventive maintenance, and alterations that his supervisor is authorized to perform, if the supervisor personally observes the work being done to the extent necessary to ensure that it is being done properly and if the supervisor is readily available, in person, for consultation. However, this paragraph does not authorize the performance of any inspection required by Part 91 or Part 125 of this chapter or any inspection performed after a major repair or alteration.

As you can see, (d) talks about a "person", which means the trunk monkey could do the work, so long as someone legal is willing to supervise and sign it off.

None of this prevents you from updating your avionics data bases:
(k) Updates of databases in installed avionics meeting the conditions of this paragraph are not considered maintenance and may be performed by pilots provided: (lists some conditions).

[Jack Tyler]

NCP:

I gave up on the idea of building an RV-12, which I think very highly of, because it wasn't capable of our main mission. BUT a second, also persuasive factor was that I didn't think it represented good value. As you note, shop + tools + kit cost add up to a large investment. Don't forget to add in a paint job (to some extent, from simple to ex$pensive) and state tax, too.

As I've mentioned before, the Sonex line of aircraft models enjoys much affection, in part because its inexpensive and in part because it is (almost) all things to all people: aerobatic, fast, folding wing option and so forth. But my advice remains: First, sit in a completed model of your preference for a while to see not just if you fit but if you comfortably fit. And second, fly in one. (That's not hard to arrange if you visit Oshkosh...and maybe not hard to arrange with the help of some EAA Chapters). See how you feel about the flying experience, and perhaps how it might feel to any 'significant other' with whom you hope to be flying. The experience of climbing into one vs. climbing into many of the 'normal' LSAs we discuss here was striking to me. It is a very different a/c physically. And here's another lens thru which to look at the Sonex: your major investment in whatever you build is going to be the combination of your time and your effort, not your money. Try to insure that the a/c you end up with, whatever it is, justifies that time and effort (the 'heart and soul' of homebuilding anything).

A close friend JUST (that's a pun) finished a Highlander and they have quite amazing performance, very large payload, folding wings, and have been competitively priced.
http://www.kitplanes.com/magazine/fixed ... 155-1.html
The 'build instructions' my friend started with were one notch above terribly incomplete...but his kit was sold 6 years ago, there's an avid builder forum and JUST has improved them. Each year there's a fly-in of Highlanders in the SE USA where they have flight competitions of various kinds and it's as close to watching helicopters as I've seen with fixed wing a/c. But of course it might not be your cup of tea...

[rsteele]

I like the Zenith Zodiac XL. All metal, and specifically for the first time sport pilot home builder. The quickbuild kit is $16k, completed airplane is prolly around $25k? I think Sonex would be my second choice.


http://zenithair.com/zodiac/xl/features1.html

http://zenithair.com/zodiac/xl/xl-price.html

Eh, This is the main reason why I haven't really looked at the Zenith Zodiac.

This is very old news and completely irrelevant now. I'm building a 601, it should be flying this summer. The design has been upgraded substantially and there has never been a problem with any 601 with the upgrade installed. All new kits will have all these changes included. This is now an extremely strong bird. It's very easy to fly, much easier than a C172 or the Tecnam p92 that I learned in. It's not trailerable.
If you put a Corvair in it, you should be able to have a nice plane for around $40000. Add another $10000 for a Rotax or Jab. One nice thing about an aluminum plane: you don't need to paint it. For a few hundred dollars and a lot of elbow grease, you can polish it instead. Save weight, save money and have a really classic look.

Since you are in the southern mid-atlantic, you should take a look at the Just Highlander. I think the factory is located in NC. It's tube and fabric high wing, but it's an fine plane, if slow. It has a huge useful load and roomy cockpit. Not sure if it's trailerable.

Tools will be an issue for anything you build. $1000 isn't an unreasonable number. Having the right tools will save a lot of time and make the process much more enjoyable, and you will build a better plane.

Ron

[NCPilot]

So after thinking about it, I decided to go with a taildragger Kitfox Super Sport. The reason being is that it's relativity cheap, I can build it while being frugal with the budget, and I can use it for bush flying in the Appalachia mountains.

[langj]

Please keep us updated on your build progress. Pictures would be nice too. I am excited to hear and see how your build goes. Good luck.