Q re: this website

Jack Tyler · Post by **Jack Tyler** » Mon Jun 20, 2011 4:29 pm

I'm wondering if anyone knows which group, business or person currently 'owns' this website. I researched the site's origin and know who created the domain (former commercial airline pilot and owner of a one-person computer consulting firm)...but I'm wondering who currently has or feels ownership for it.

E.g. look at the lead-in to this category:
"Light Sport Aircraft: Talk about airplanes! At last count, there are 39 (and growing) FAA certificated S-LSA (special light sport aircraft)."

Last count?

We don't seem to have an active moderator group here, nor does the site seem to enjoy any oversight...so I just thought I'd ask the obvious question. I'm not trying to stir any particular pot but it would be nice to hear who - if anyone - feels responsible for what's being posted here.

ArionAv8or · Post by **ArionAv8or** » Tue Jun 21, 2011 10:11 am

His name is Gerald and you can contact him at [email protected]

Jon V · Post by **Jon V** » Tue Jun 21, 2011 11:03 am

...it would be nice to hear who - if anyone - feels responsible for what's being posted here.

I would hope that you feel responsible for what you post.

As for anyone else taking responsibility for it, that's something no sane forum operator should touch with a 20 foot pole. The CDA grants service providers (which includes someone providing a forum as a service) on the internet a certain amount of immunity from legal liability for 3rd party content (such as forum postings), but that immunity can be pierced if the service provider exerts editorial control. At that point it is viewed more like a newspaper or magazine where the editors can be liable for statements they publish even if they were not the authors of those statements. If the forum provider starts taking "responsibility" for postings here and someone gets sued for something they post, the provider can find themselves drawn into the lawsuit and facing damages of their own. Never take responsibility for member-provided content if you operate a forum, and be EXTREMELY circumspect about editing or deleting posts if you are an administrator/moderator, or you can borrow a world of legal hurt.

Jack Tyler · Post by **Jack Tyler** » Wed Jun 22, 2011 6:01 am

Relax, Jon.

My query re: 'responsibility' has to do with the lack of upkeep of the site, something individual contributors have no control over. If we spend some of our time here, we obviously find some value in the site...in which case, so my thinking goes, we would like to see it kept current and relevant. Category & thread labels that are years out of date, LSA production numbers that are years behind the times, a category structure that's missing key themes - it looks to me like this is a bit of an orphan.

Thanks for the admin's name, Arion. FYI I've emailed admin in the past and received no response nor seen reported corrections made to the site. Thus, my query...

Jon V · Post by **Jon V** » Wed Jun 22, 2011 9:16 am

Jack Tyler wrote:Relax, Jon.

So... you're bothered that a subforum description reads, "39 (and growing)", when it should read "117 (and falling)", and I should relax?

Sorry, Jack, but I think my answer at least scored funny points.

Here's my take....

Someone could try to "fix up" the forum, but it'd be like painting a church.

Attendance may be down, it may be filled with may be misinformation, there may be image problems, but new subforum descriptions aren't going to make sportpilottalk thrive, any more than a new coat of Behr will fill a church's pews. You need to change the systemic issues that are limiting interest in sport pilot aviation if you want things to improve.

Sportpilottalk is hosted on 1and1 which means someone is paying between $3 and $10 a month for hosting, plus another $15/yr for domain name service. 1and1 is not particularly reliable, as you can observe from the frequent downtimes for SPT. However, it is cheap. With a few ads the site probably breaks even if you don't count unbilled labor. Without increasing the readership (and therefore the ad exposure) you are not going to pay for more reliable hosting or updated content.

I do think we are all capable of being ambassadors of SP flying. Well, maybe not capable in the "good at it" sense, but it's how we can be most effective. Go talk to people (not authorities...don't try to leverage a school for example because the school just sees "liability" - people) about how flying is no more outre than buying an RV or a pair of Harleys. You may not convince anyone, but if you do you'll do more good than updating some descriptions on a forum very few people actually visit.

Just my $27.53 (quantitative easing don'cha know).

rsteele · Post by **rsteele** » Wed Jun 22, 2011 9:50 am

The owner of this site posted a few months ago wanting to sell it due to lack of time to maintain it properly. I believe he said it made a small amount of money at that time.
You can probably fine the post some where.

Ron

Jack Tyler · Post by **Jack Tyler** » Wed Jun 22, 2011 11:10 am

Thanks for the specific reply to my Q, Ron. That does indeed explain a lot, including what we're seeing (and not seeing) here.

Bill · Post by **Bill** » Wed Jun 22, 2011 4:14 pm

rsteele wrote:The owner of this site posted a few months ago wanting to sell it due to lack of time to maintain it properly. I believe he said it made a small amount of money at that time.
You can probably fine the post some where.

Ron

I believe that thread has been removed. I had posted in it and actually received a price to consider. I earn my living on the Internet (Marketing) and have ample and reliable server resources. The price was, I felt, reasonable and I was almost ready to pull the trigger. Then I came to my senses - and realized that "I, too," don't have the time to maintain and grow a forum. Then the potential liability issue came to bear and I realized I should stick with what I do well and just participate here (and a couple other places).

There is a fairly active Ercoupe group that use the archaic Yahoo Groups for their (forum?) newsgroup). Some of them might be enticed here - if there was a section for the "older" LSA-eligible members of the fleet. That would have been one of my objectives. to work on for growing gthe forum. (If it wasn't for the sue-crazy society in which we live I would likely be starting such a forum - for fun, not for the cash.)

LSAflyer · Post by **LSAflyer** » Thu Jun 23, 2011 1:59 pm

Ron[/quote]I believe that thread has been removed. I had posted in it and actually received a price to consider. I earn my living on the Internet (Marketing) and have ample and reliable server resources. The price was, I felt, reasonable and I was almost ready to pull the trigger. Then I came to my senses - and realized that "I, too," don't have the time to maintain and grow a forum. Then the potential liability issue came to bear and I realized I should stick with what I do well and just participate here (and a couple other places).

There is a fairly active Ercoupe group that use the archaic Yahoo Groups for their (forum?) newsgroup). Some of them might be enticed here - if there was a section for the "older" LSA-eligible members of the fleet. That would have been one of my objectives. to work on for growing gthe forum. (If it wasn't for the sue-crazy society in which we live I would likely be starting such a forum - for fun, not for the cash.)[/quote]

How much time is involved in owning an internet forum? Also, what are ways of promoting this website more to get more members. This is an interesting topic as I have no knowledge on the logistics of this.

Jon V · Post by **Jon V** » Thu Jun 23, 2011 4:20 pm

LSAflyer wrote: How much time is involved in owning an internet forum?

On the technical side, not much. On the content/social side it can range from a little bit of fiddling whenever something goes wrong to a 24/7 job depending on your personality/goals. The minimum time for me when I ran a forum was about an hour a day, but I've known people who lived on their forums...seemed to spend every waking minute on them. Obviously some people don't spend nearly that much time but it can become an OCD outlet.

Also, what are ways of promoting this website more to get more members. This is an interesting topic as I have no knowledge on the logistics of this.

As a third party or if you owned it?

The usual "best" is to have an informational site or blog that can draw people in, and then shift the conversations to the forum. The idea is that a blog, because it has new content every day (more or less), will get followers who visit constantly. Those followers will have similar interests ad will want to comment on what you've said. When the comments change from "yeah sure" or "thumbs up" to actual discussions between commentors, that's when you send 'em to a forum.

The other "best" is to have a lot of factual content that people are looking for in your stickes and FAQs. Comparisons of every headset or amphibious LSA or whatever, with a picture and a brief summary for each, that sort of thing. The upside here is that it is more likely to be member contributed. A forum owner can curate other people's posts instead of having to write all the info themselves. The down side is that *someone* has to write it and having such members on your forums is more a matter of luck than anything else.

These aren't things you advertise like laundry soap.

GeraldZ · Post by **GeraldZ** » Fri Jun 24, 2011 4:47 am

I started the forum in February of 2006. It has grown to become the largest forum for sport pilots and light-sport aircraft. At this point I only spend a limited amount of time each week approving new members. This has kept spammers off of the site, you know, folks trying to sell Viagra and other things. Everybody signing up for an account must provide their location and aviation interests.

At one point I had several paid annual banner ads on the site and it generated several thousand dollars per year in ad revenue. Today I only have the Google ads which generate several hundred dollars per year. I really don't have the time to pursue advertisers or to upgrade the software to a newer version. There was a time when I'd attend the Sport Pilot Expo and the EAA Airventure. But today I'm busy with my flying career (just upgraded to Captain on the E145) and some other small business websites.

So yes, the site could use a new owner and lots of work to clean it up and improve it. I think $10k is a fair price for the years of hard work I've put into it and the advertising potential. The right person could easily have the site paid for in several years. You could also add a pilot shop, etc. to generate revenue. I've had a few inquiries but no takers. So the site is what it is, usable but not pretty. The nice thing about forums is that they grow like a snowball, with each and every post being indexed by the search engines. And the larger they become the more valuable they become. In the last 30 days, SPT received 16,252 unique visitors and 3,867 returning visitors.

GeraldZ,
Administrator

Jack Tyler · Post by **Jack Tyler** » Fri Jun 24, 2011 1:59 pm

Gerald, I'm the fellow who posted the original question, and it's nice to see the Administrator care enough to make an appearance here and provide some background. I wish you well on the sales effort...altho' I suspect it is a chicken/egg dilemma for you (and therefore us). The less contemporary, current and inclusive it is, the less value it has for everyone...and certainly for a buyer.

Congrats on upgrading to the left seat, and fly safe.