Sport Pilot Talk

Sorry to hear that (but glad you still have the LSA option).

I've said this before , but with blocked post and all, you won't know for sure until the final rule comes out.

eyeflygps wrote:I am toast as of today. It's LSA for me.

Maybe not, Senator Inhofe is trying to attach the original PBOR2 language to another appropriations bill, which could remove the ten year medical requirement. Keep watching, it ain't over yet!

I just bought an LSA even though I probably COULD get a medical ... with enough paperwork and patience, although that's not without some risk. However, I am flying sport privileges by choice at this point. My mission just doesn't need a 4-5 place aircraft ... although it would be nice to fly at night occasionally ... and now that I think about it ... 180 knots would be nice ... *laughing* - just kidding ...

And even if the PBOR2 passes in it's current form (in the FAA bill), the FAA has to propose a rule, then adopt it ... Congress has until next January to actually pass the darn thing ... and the FAA has another year to do the rule ... yada, yada ... so whatever reform we get may not actually hit until early 2018.

I stopped holding my breath a while back... if things change in 2017 or 2018, great. I will deal with it then.

eyeflygps wrote:I am toast as of today. It's LSA for me.

Gliders are still available. Even motor gliders, I believe, and you don't have the weight restriction.

eyeflygps wrote:It just means I'll be renting longer than I would like. I can't afford $60,000 and $1,000 per month right now, for a hobby in which my wife does not participate.

When shopping for a used S-LSA $60,000 might be a common price range, however

The E-LSA market is a different story, the majority of the ELSA and light sport compliant EAB aircraft listed on Barnstormers are under $30,000

then there are certified dinosaurs that are LSA compliant, champs, chiefs, ercoupe etc..... most are between $18,000-$28,000

FOR EXAMBLE:...

QUICKSILVER MXLII SPORT W/ 582 • $10,900 • FOR SALE • N5034T, registered as ELSA in 2007, Rotax 582, 417 hours at last annual in 9/2015, compression: 133/134, 12 gallon fuel tank, oil injected, backup electrical fuel pump, electric start, IVO 3 blade ground-adjustable prop, Air-tech over-sized radiator, new sails in January 2013, BRS (out of date), lighting system, digital EIS, trim tab • Contact Kyle Sulek, Owner - located Oklahoma City, OK USA • Telephone: 319-423-4552 . • Posted May 18, 2016 • Show all Ads posted by this Advertiser • Recommend This Ad to a Friend • Email Advertiser • Save to Watchlist • Report This Ad • View Larger Pictures

SKYRAIDER/RIDGE RUNNER III • $17,500 • FOR SALE • Skyraider II – to – 2013 Ridge Runner III ($ 17,500 OBO) W/trailer N#, Reg. (ELSA) , Electric Start, 503 DCDI Instruments: Airspeed, Tach, Altimeter, Vertical speed Ind, Compass, Dual CHT, Dual EGT, Fuel Pressure, Elect. Fuel pump, Volt meter, Elect. Trim, ELT, Anti Col Lights, Two 7gal wing tanks, one gal header tank. (Handheld GPS and Radio not included). Annual 6-19-2015. Flight Controls in rear seat. All Logs. Wings fold back in five minutes, • Contact Randy R. Gruss, Owner - located Tucson, AZ USA • Telephone: 5204045544 . • Posted May 16, 2016 • Show all Ads posted by this Advertiser • Recommend This Ad to a Friend • Email Advertiser • Save to Watchlist • Report This Ad • View Larger Pictures

KOLB MARK 3 XTRA • $22,000 • LIGHT-SPORT AIRCRAFT FOR SALE! • Factory built Kolb for sale, 181hrs TT , 72hrs on Rotax Rick 670 engine. Great STOL performance with bush wheels and steel gear. Intercom, Icom radio, EIS. Registered ELSA so you can do your own inspections. Must sell! Ready to go! Located Apalachin NY Call or Text Rodney 607 725 4691. • Contact Rodney L. Payne, Owner - located Apalachin, NY USA • Telephone: 607 725 4691 . • Posted May 9, 2016 • Show all Ads posted by this Advertiser • Recommend This Ad to a Friend • Email Advertiser • Save to Watchlist • Report This Ad • View Larger Pictures

unless you are flying a lot, and qualify for reasonably priced insurance (lots of hours) then it generally makes more sense to rent

there are a lot of people that fly their LSA less than 15-20 hours a year
when you add up
-hangar
-insurance
-annual inspection
-depreciation (this is the big one)
-maintenance

once they divide the total costs by the # of hours flown.... if they dare

their hourly cost to operate may be double what they could rent for.... or worse

azsportpilot wrote:their hourly cost to operate may be double what they could rent for

This is entirely true. But, there are some intangible advantages to ownership one should not overlook. For one thing, you're not at the mercy of the FBO in terms of what they happen to have on their flight line. You can get exactly the aircraft you want, equipped exactly as you want. You never have to worry about availability or scheduling. You know what condition it's in, since you're the only pilot flying it. You know exactly how it's being maintained, since you are your own maintenance manager. And when you are ready to move on to something else, you get trade-in value, whereas all money paid to an FBO for rent is gone. Many pilots feel the advantages justify the cost.

That's a pretty good insurance rate. I pay $5k for similar coverage, but it's a commercial policy that covers solo students...

Funny how the insurance markets seem to think that a guy like me is a risky proposition ... Imagine that! I got one insurance quote for over $6k, but the rest are in the $3k range. Rusty pilot, grass field (but hangared), under 100 hours, PPL ... They tell me it will go down after a year or two ... Crazy though!

I agree on the purchase; there just aren't any low-wing LSA's to rent here in Houston, period. There are 1 or 2 possible options, a P92 was available but the business folded up (funny enough, it's now hangared at the same little airport as me), and a Skycatcher at a flight school in NW Houston. But that one is pretty beat up ... All things considered, I decided to buy but I am fortunate to have enough cash flow although this will make things tight for a couple years, manageable though.

Cheers.

drseti wrote:

azsportpilot wrote:their hourly cost to operate may be double what they could rent for

This is entirely true. But, there are some intangible advantages to ownership one should not overlook. For one thing, you're not at the mercy of the FBO in terms of what they happen to have on their flight line. You can get exactly the aircraft you want, equipped exactly as you want. You never have to worry about availability or scheduling. You know what condition it's in, since you're the only pilot flying it. You know exactly how it's being maintained, since you are your own maintenance manager. And when you are ready to move on to something else, you get trade-in value, whereas all money paid to an FBO for rent is gone. Many pilots feel the advantages justify the cost.

I agree on this. You also get some other benefits:

1) Pride of ownership. Some people see cleaning bugs off and washing/waxing an airplane as a minus. But I can say that making an airplane you own look good enough that people want to walk over and look at it at a fly-in brings a certain satisfaction. Not everybody cares about that, but I used to spent several hours a month detailing the Mustang I drove and raced. I like that kind of thing.

2) Since you will (probably) be flying one airplane exclusively, you will get to know that airplane backwards and forwards. You'll know every quirk of handling in the ground and in the air. You'll learn the "tricks" do doing things better and easier. You will know with very high confidence exactly how to read the cues to know when you are slow enough that the airplane is about to start sinking, or about to stall. While you still should fly conservatively, you'll find times when the airplane does something that surprises you to get more and more rare. This is a good thing.

3) Because of (2), when something is not right you may get more advanced warning. If your airplane never uses any oil, and is suddenly down half a quart, alarm bells will go off in your head. If you normally run 220°F in a climb on a warm day and now you are pushing 260°F, you know something is amiss. In a rental you really don't know what's normal for that airplane, if you own it and fly it all the time you get advanced warning of problems, almost like a "sixth sense".

MackAttack wrote:Funny how the insurance markets seem to think that a guy like me is a risky proposition ... Imagine that! I got one insurance quote for over $6k, but the rest are in the $3k range. Rusty pilot, grass field (but hangared), under 100 hours, PPL ... They tell me it will go down after a year or two ... Crazy though!

Here is something I found when one of my students was looking for insurance for his Skykits Savannah VGW back in Phoenix

the first agent quoted him $2461,00/yr..... he was hoping for a lower rate so he checked another agent, they asked all the relevant questions then quoted him $2411.00

I thought that was one hell of a coincidence so I asked my agent (who gave him the first quote) and he confessed that they store the potential customers quote in a database and other competing agents are supposed to check this prior to quoting so as to not undercut the last guy

very different than the car insurance biz

he went on to say some of the aggressive ones will undercut, but only by the amount necessary to get the deal (usually just a few bucks)

we spent some time calling just about everybody providing relevant info but not name, (and explained why) and told them we were shopping everyone.....the quotes varied wildly.... but, we soon had a quote for $1650 for the same coverage

I learned a lot that day, 25+ years flying and instructing, owned several planes ...and had no idea how different aviation insurance is when compared to the more common "free market" atmosphere found when shopping for auto insurance, homeowners insurance etc

Good to know, thanks! Unfortunately both brokers already have my info ... C'est la vie, at least for the first year!

Cheers

AVWeb and others are reporting that PBOR is included in the temporary increase in funding for the FAA. What shape it takes, not sure.

http://www.avweb.com/avwebflash/news/Me ... 533-1.html

The legislation is on its way to the President. Should be signed this week.

https://www.aopa.org/News-and-Media/All ... um=Content