CFI

Here's the place to ask all of your medical questions. But don't believe everything you read!

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busted
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CFI

Postby busted » Wed Jun 25, 2014 9:37 pm

I've been out of flying the last 15 yrs. The on line Medical questions are new to me. Just wondering on rateings, My CFI is experied, so do I have a CFI rateing or not? Another question, date of last FAA medical? like i have records of that. I understand the examiner can change answeres later, just curious..... thanks

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drseti
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Re: CFI

Postby drseti » Wed Jun 25, 2014 10:25 pm

If your CFI has lapsed, then I'd say you no longer hold it. As for last medical, how you answer won't affect your medical eligibility at all, so just estimate. Check your logbook for your last logged flight, and choose a date less than two years before that (assuming you were exercising privileges that a 3rd Class medical would satisfy).
The opinions posted are those of one CFI, and do not necessarily represent the FAA or its lawyers.
Prof H Paul Shuch
PhD CFII DPE LSRM-A/GL/WS/PPC iRMT
AvSport LLC, KLHV
fly@AvSport.org
AvSport.org
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MovingOn
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Re: CFI

Postby MovingOn » Wed Jun 25, 2014 10:53 pm

.......
Last edited by MovingOn on Tue Aug 19, 2014 4:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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MrMorden
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Re: CFI

Postby MrMorden » Thu Jun 26, 2014 8:07 am

MovingOn wrote:If there is any chance you won't pass your medical, don't take it. Fly LSA with Sport Pilot privileges with a driver's license. That is if you passed your last medical and it was not revoked, just expired.


I agree. In fact, I suggest you find an AME that will do a consultation visit beforehand so you can go over your entire medical history, and make sure there is nothing there that will bite you. Make it clear to him/her that this is NOT a medical, just a consultation about your eligibility for a medical. Pay in cash if you can.

When you walk in for an actual medical, there should never be *any* doubt as to the outcome. As MovingOn said, if you can't be sure of the outcome of a medical, fly under Sport Pilot privileges for a while and see if that is enough to scratch your flying itch. If not you can always jump through the hoops to get your medical, or wait to see the outcome of the FAA's initiative to ease 3rd class medical requirements through driver's license medicals.

Good luck!
Andy Walker
Athens, GA
Sport Pilot ASEL, LSRI
2007 Flight Design CTSW E-LSA

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designrs
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Re: CFI

Postby designrs » Fri Jun 27, 2014 6:30 am

MrMorden wrote: I suggest you find an AME that will do a consultation visit beforehand so you can go over your entire medical history, and make sure there is nothing there that will bite you. Make it clear to him/her that this is NOT a medical, just a consultation about your eligibility for a medical. Pay in cash if you can.

When you walk in for an actual medical, there should never be *any* doubt as to the outcome.


This concept of consultation is not new however it is extremely well stated above.
A walk-in AME around here requires the FAA form to be filed online first.
NO WAY! The above method is so much better. It is also honest and upfront as to intent of the appointment.
Again, very well stated. Thank you Andy.

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Re: CFI

Postby 3Dreaming » Fri Jun 27, 2014 8:58 am

designrs wrote:
MrMorden wrote: I suggest you find an AME that will do a consultation visit beforehand so you can go over your entire medical history, and make sure there is nothing there that will bite you. Make it clear to him/her that this is NOT a medical, just a consultation about your eligibility for a medical. Pay in cash if you can.

When you walk in for an actual medical, there should never be *any* doubt as to the outcome.


This concept of consultation is not new however it is extremely well stated above.
A walk-in AME around here requires the FAA form to be filed online first.
NO WAY! The above method is so much better. It is also honest and upfront as to intent of the appointment.
Again, very well stated. Thank you Andy.


Just so you know, the form does not go to the FAA until after the doctor signs in to look at it.

The way it used to be is when you walked through the door you were handed a numbered form that the doctor has to account for. As soon as the form was started, so was your physical.

Now you fill out the form online and the only person who can see it is you, until you give the doctor the information needed to access it. The FAA does not get to see it until the doctor sends it to them. In fact I think Med Express is a private company contracted by the FAA to do this. The way my AME does it is first you do the exam, and then he will access the form. If there is any problems he will recommend the applicant consider flying as a sport pilot.

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Re: CFI

Postby MrMorden » Fri Jun 27, 2014 9:12 am

3Dreaming wrote:Just so you know, the form does not go to the FAA until after the doctor signs in to look at it.

The way it used to be is when you walked through the door you were handed a numbered form that the doctor has to account for. As soon as the form was started, so was your physical.

Now you fill out the form online and the only person who can see it is you, until you give the doctor the information needed to access it. The FAA does not get to see it until the doctor sends it to them. In fact I think Med Express is a private company contracted by the FAA to do this. The way my AME does it is first you do the exam, and then he will access the form. If there is any problems he will recommend the applicant consider flying as a sport pilot.


In the FAA's eyes, the medical starts when you walk in the door for the purposes of getting a medical. Starting a medical and then aborting it during the AME visit is against the rules; the AME is supposed to grant, deny, or defer in every case where a medical exam is started for the purposes of obtaining a medical. Some AMEs may take mercy on you and do what you suggest, but not many...if they do they are taking the liability on themselves and could lose their AME credentials.
Andy Walker
Athens, GA
Sport Pilot ASEL, LSRI
2007 Flight Design CTSW E-LSA

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Re: CFI

Postby 3Dreaming » Fri Jun 27, 2014 10:33 am

MrMorden wrote: In the FAA's eyes, the medical starts when you walk in the door for the purposes of getting a medical. Starting a medical and then aborting it during the AME visit is against the rules; the AME is supposed to grant, deny, or defer in every case where a medical exam is started for the purposes of obtaining a medical. Some AMEs may take mercy on you and do what you suggest, but not many...if they do they are taking the liability on themselves and could lose their AME credentials.


Andy, what is the source for your comment? My statement regarding how it is done with the new online form came from an AME. He said it is one of the unintended changes in doing the medical with the new online form, and the FAA is OK with it.

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drseti
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Re: CFI

Postby drseti » Fri Jun 27, 2014 11:21 am

I use 61.3(c)(2)(v) for guidance:

(v) Is exercising the privileges of a sport pilot certificate with other than glider or balloon privileges and holds a U.S. driver's license. A person who has applied for or held a medical certificate may exercise the privileges of a sport pilot certificate using a U.S. driver's license only if that person—

(A) Has been found eligible for the issuance of at least a third-class airman medical certificate at the time of his or her most recent application;


Since the online form is called an application for the issuance of a medical certificate, it could be argued that the act of filling it out may be interpreted as having "applied for or held a medical certificate..." Thus, if the application has been filed online and the medical not issued, one cannot exercise SP privileges using a driver's license. This is the most stringent and restrictive interpretation of the FAR possible, so prudence suggests you not fill out the form until after getting that consultation with an AME.
The opinions posted are those of one CFI, and do not necessarily represent the FAA or its lawyers.
Prof H Paul Shuch
PhD CFII DPE LSRM-A/GL/WS/PPC iRMT
AvSport LLC, KLHV
fly@AvSport.org
AvSport.org
facebook.com/SportFlying
SportPilotExaminer.US

3Dreaming
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Re: CFI

Postby 3Dreaming » Fri Jun 27, 2014 12:01 pm

If not used the online form is deleted after 60 days, so there would be no record. I also found this on a FAA pamphlet on the Med Express system.
When your AME imports your application using your confirmation number and saves it in the FAA’s medical certification system, the application is considered a permanent record. Don't give your confirmation number until you know you are OK.

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designrs
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Re: CFI

Postby designrs » Fri Jun 27, 2014 12:17 pm

I'm with Paul. Don't fill out anything online until you are ready to officially begin the medical process (after consideration and/or full consultation). Why risk it?

Perhaps even after the above, could the confirmation number can also be held (as per 3D Dreaming's suggestion) until you are ALL DONE AND GOOD with the official medical? (I guess that would highly depend on how much flexibility the AME wants to give you.)
Last edited by designrs on Fri Jun 27, 2014 12:41 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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drseti
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Re: CFI

Postby drseti » Fri Jun 27, 2014 12:32 pm

3Dreaming wrote:If not used the online form is deleted after 60 days,


At which point, only the NSA has access to it. :(
The opinions posted are those of one CFI, and do not necessarily represent the FAA or its lawyers.
Prof H Paul Shuch
PhD CFII DPE LSRM-A/GL/WS/PPC iRMT
AvSport LLC, KLHV
fly@AvSport.org
AvSport.org
facebook.com/SportFlying
SportPilotExaminer.US

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MrMorden
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Re: CFI

Postby MrMorden » Fri Jun 27, 2014 1:20 pm

3Dreaming wrote:
MrMorden wrote: In the FAA's eyes, the medical starts when you walk in the door for the purposes of getting a medical. Starting a medical and then aborting it during the AME visit is against the rules; the AME is supposed to grant, deny, or defer in every case where a medical exam is started for the purposes of obtaining a medical. Some AMEs may take mercy on you and do what you suggest, but not many...if they do they are taking the liability on themselves and could lose their AME credentials.


Andy, what is the source for your comment? My statement regarding how it is done with the new online form came from an AME. He said it is one of the unintended changes in doing the medical with the new online form, and the FAA is OK with it.


The FAA Guide for Medical Examiners: http://www.faa.gov/about/office_org/headquarters_offices/avs/offices/aam/ame/guide/app_process/exam_tech/

From the document:

The Examiner must carefully read the applicant's history page of FAA Form 8500-8 (Items 1-20) before conducting the physical examination and completing the Report of Medical Examination. This alerts the Examiner to possible pathological findings.

and
Upon completion of the physical examination, the entire FAA Form 8500-8, Items 1 through 64, must be electronically transmitted to the FAA.

further from the "decision considerations" portion of the guide...
The Examiner must note in Item 60 of the FAA Form 8500-8 any condition found in the course of the examination. The Examiner must list the facts, such as dates, frequency, and severity of occurrence.


It seems clear the medical application has to be reviewed before the exam, and the results of the exam MUST be transmitted to the FAA. I'm sure some pilots and AMEs play fast and loose with this, but if discovered there WILL be repercussions for both of them.
Andy Walker
Athens, GA
Sport Pilot ASEL, LSRI
2007 Flight Design CTSW E-LSA

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designrs
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Re: CFI

Postby designrs » Fri Jun 27, 2014 1:41 pm

... and so the AME needs your confirmation number to review and BEGIN the exam.

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Re: CFI

Postby MovingOn » Fri Jun 27, 2014 1:46 pm

.......
Last edited by MovingOn on Tue Aug 19, 2014 4:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.


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