Sport Pilot Schools that Require a Medical - Help Stop This

Here's the place to ask all of your medical questions. But don't believe everything you read!

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MovingOn
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Re: Sport Pilot Schools that Require a Medical - Help Stop T

Postby MovingOn » Sat Aug 02, 2014 8:42 pm

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Last edited by MovingOn on Fri Aug 22, 2014 7:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Nomore767
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Re: Sport Pilot Schools that Require a Medical - Help Stop T

Postby Nomore767 » Sat Aug 02, 2014 9:08 pm

CTLSi wrote:The obvious seems to be being missed.

Why are there medical exams at all for any pilot? And no medical checks for some pilots?

The gorilla in the room is either, the medical checks are bogus and should be removed for everyone, or the DL sport pilot guys should not be allowed to fly for the same reason anyone failing an AME exam are not allowed to fly.

Say how suddenly a guy avoids taking and failing an AME exam happily gets into the air in an LSA and is somehow transformed into a medically fit pilot? It's irrational.


Every pilot is subject to 'some' level of medical scrutiny. It might not meet YOUR criteria but it's fact. The reason the FAA approves a pilot to fly on a DL is because that pilot IS subject to the state's medical requirement for a DL. You may scoff at that, but it's true. It's also true that the pilot flying on a DL cannot have a history of DUIs for example, which is a big item on FAA medical exams.
So it's not tue to say that there are NO medical checks for 'some pilots'. In fact you MUST carry that DL with you when you fly. You MUST wear glasses to fly IF they're required on your DL. If your license is suspended so are your sport pilot privileges by default.
The point that sport pilots have proved is that their flying safety record isn't any different from NOT having taken a 3rd Class medical every couple of years compared with having only the medical health required to obtain and keep a DL.
The 3rd Class medical pretty much is a snap shot of the person's medical condition, that day. Similar, but not so much, is a 1st Class medical whereby the candidate has to have an EKG and other stricter requirements one of which is much more frequent medicals. Even so, pilots have taken an EKG one day and the next have suffered a coronary event. It's not 100% but it's much better, that's why 1st class pilots have to self-certify too.
The whole point of the sport pilot flying on a DL in lieu of a 3rd class medical is that the medical aspects of the flying are also reflected in the recreational aspect of the flying. The least restrictive medical allows the most restricted flying…day VFR below 10k and not in certain airspace without further training.

There is NO gorilla in the room except for you. You still seem unable to grasp that a pilot starting out as a sport pilot is NOT medically the equivalent of a pilot who has FAILED an FAA medical simply because he is using his DL as approved by the FAA. You insinuate that sport pilots are somehow 'beating the system' because they choose to fly, legally approved by the FAA, using the medical provisions of their DL and thus get around the medical.
Don't forget if they have DUIs etc they can lose their DL and thus their sport flying privileges. If their DL is revoked for any reason, they're illegal to fly as a sport pilot.

Your point that a pilot avoids failing an FAA medical by choosing to not take it and thus flies as a sport pilot via 'the back door' and thus beats the system assumes that the pilot wanted say to fly PPL but wouldn't pass the medical so he doesn't take it. But now he can't fly anything other than a light sport anyway . If he was already flying a light sport then he didn't NEED to take the medical in the first place and could fly legally on his DL. The caveat here is that if he KNOWS of a medical condition that would preclude him from flying safely then he's in violation of the rules anyway, as any other pilot would be regardless of their level of medical or license. As is ANY pilot who flies knowingly with a medical condition that would ground them, even if they 'just didn't feel good today' and so shouldn't be flying anyway, which applies to ALL pilots.
Last edited by Nomore767 on Sat Aug 02, 2014 9:36 pm, edited 2 times in total.

MovingOn
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Re: Sport Pilot Schools that Require a Medical - Help Stop T

Postby MovingOn » Sat Aug 02, 2014 9:16 pm

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Last edited by MovingOn on Fri Aug 22, 2014 7:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.

TravelerMSY
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Re: Sport Pilot Schools that Require a Medical - Help Stop T

Postby TravelerMSY » Sat Aug 02, 2014 9:35 pm

And the medical standards for DLs vary widely by state. That is likely why they added the language about being medically fit to fly on the honor system. I think the disparity between FAA standards and state DMV standards is where all the debate is coming from.

The FAA could have specified objective medical standards for SP but not required an exam. Instead, they left it up to the pilots, with a DL as the bare minimum qualification.

MovingOn
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Re: Sport Pilot Schools that Require a Medical - Help Stop T

Postby MovingOn » Sat Aug 02, 2014 9:43 pm

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Last edited by MovingOn on Fri Aug 22, 2014 7:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Nomore767
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Re: Sport Pilot Schools that Require a Medical - Help Stop T

Postby Nomore767 » Sat Aug 02, 2014 9:51 pm

TravelerMSY wrote:And the medical standards for DLs vary widely by state. That is likely why they added the language about being medically fit to fly on the honor system. I think the disparity between FAA standards and state DMV standards is where all the debate is coming from.

The FAA could have specified objective medical standards for SP but not required an exam. Instead, they left it up to the pilots, with a DL as the bare minimum qualification.


The FAA didn't add the self-certify language just for pilots flying on a DL. It's ALWAYS been there and applies to EVERY class of medical, for EVERY pilot, EVERY time they fly.

AND…it's not just the 'medical' standards of a state's DL but also their driving record, to include tickets, DUI, vision, mental health record for example…WHICH…are also included on the 3rd class medical which, let's face it, isn't that much more stringent…b/p, urine sample, cough, how are you feeling etc.

Remember…flying on a DL doesn't allow the greater flying privileges of the PPL which does require the 3rd class physical.

Merlinspop
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Re: Sport Pilot Schools that Require a Medical - Help Stop T

Postby Merlinspop » Sun Aug 03, 2014 7:11 am

For a forum specifically focused on Sport Pilots, of which the DL Medical is a central component, I am surprised at the arguments we frequently see here against self certification.
Before SP, I voluntarily saw a doctor exactly as often as the FAA required me to, and then I shared only what information was absolutely necessary. Now, I get a thorough physical annually, and at least 1 'check-in' in between. I am much more on top of all my blood levels, coronary status and other aspects of my health. I still self certify, a large part of which is looking at my kids and asking myself if I'm exposing them to additional, unnecessary risk, but now I'm better informed.
- Bruce

CTLSi
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Re: Sport Pilot Schools that Require a Medical - Help Stop T

Postby CTLSi » Sun Aug 03, 2014 8:58 am

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Last edited by CTLSi on Mon Dec 01, 2014 9:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.

MovingOn
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Re: Sport Pilot Schools that Require a Medical - Help Stop T

Postby MovingOn » Sun Aug 03, 2014 11:16 am

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Merlinspop
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Re: Sport Pilot Schools that Require a Medical - Help Stop T

Postby Merlinspop » Sun Aug 03, 2014 12:43 pm

CTLSi wrote:
MovingOn wrote:A driver's license is not the minimum. The pilot must not have any condition that would make him medically unfit to act as PIC as determined by himself and his personal physician. There are plenty of people driving around in cars that are not medically fit to fly an airplane.


Not true. For Sport Pilot the DL is enough. There is no physician or medical exam required. Flying an aircraft can result in the death of dozens of people, the pilot, a passenger, and however many people get nailed on the ground. Not the same as a car.

The entire premise of anyone being able to fly just based on their own self-medical assessment is bogus. I know specifically of an older guy on the airfield who flys with Parkinsons and is a heavy drinker. He owns three LSAs, and flys one of them about once per week.


https://www.faa.gov/contact/safety_hotline/
- Bruce

MovingOn
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Re: Sport Pilot Schools that Require a Medical - Help Stop T

Postby MovingOn » Sun Aug 03, 2014 12:54 pm

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CTLSi
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Re: Sport Pilot Schools that Require a Medical - Help Stop T

Postby CTLSi » Sun Aug 03, 2014 12:58 pm

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drseti
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Re: Sport Pilot Schools that Require a Medical - Help Stop T

Postby drseti » Sun Aug 03, 2014 1:04 pm

MovingOn wrote: There are plenty of people driving around in cars that are not medically fit to fly an airplane.


True. And there are plenty of people driving around in cars that are not medically fit to drive around in cars. But, it has not been demonstrated to my satisfaction that there are plenty of people flying around in airplanes that are not medically fit to fly an airplane. The accident statistics just don't bear this out.
The opinions posted are those of one CFI, and do not necessarily represent the FAA or its lawyers.
Prof H Paul Shuch
PhD CFII DPE LSRM-A/GL/WS/PPC iRMT
AvSport LLC, KLHV
fly@AvSport.org
AvSport.org
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MovingOn
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Re: Sport Pilot Schools that Require a Medical - Help Stop T

Postby MovingOn » Sun Aug 03, 2014 1:12 pm

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drseti
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Re: Sport Pilot Schools that Require a Medical - Help Stop T

Postby drseti » Sun Aug 03, 2014 1:15 pm

CTLSi wrote:The entire premise of anyone being able to fly just based on their own self-medical assessment is bogus.


You may consider it bogus, but the real question is whether it is unsafe. To answer that, we turn to ten years worth of accident data. I study the NTSB database extensively, and have yet to find a single example of an accident caused by an existing medical condition that would have been caught by a 3rd Class medical exam.

I know specifically of an older guy on the airfield who flys with Parkinsons and is a heavy drinker. He owns three LSAs, and flys one of them about once per week.


Since I don't know the pilot in question, I can't respond to your anecdotal evidence. I can say, however, that (1) early asymptomatic Parkinsons may not be sufficiently debilitating to preclude safe flight, (2) being a heavy drinker does not necessarily mean that a person is under the influence of alcohol at any particular time, and (3) someone who flies about once a week is keeping current, thus may be safer than a person with a medical certificate who flies more infrequently.
The opinions posted are those of one CFI, and do not necessarily represent the FAA or its lawyers.
Prof H Paul Shuch
PhD CFII DPE LSRM-A/GL/WS/PPC iRMT
AvSport LLC, KLHV
fly@AvSport.org
AvSport.org
facebook.com/SportFlying
SportPilotExaminer.US


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