AVED won't rent 162's to PIC without a medical?

Here's the place to ask all of your medical questions. But don't believe everything you read!

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eidolon45
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AVED won't rent 162's to PIC without a medical?

Postby eidolon45 » Thu Oct 27, 2011 6:54 am

I just saw some news from AVED based in N Virginia. They have instituted a new policy regarding their LSAs (Skycatchers). Their bulletin indicates they will no longer rent 162s to a PIC who doesn't hold a current medical. They cite insurance concerns as the reason. They will continue to rent to students with an instructor, but it is unclear if you can even solo in one of their planes. Any other schools or LSA renters out there that have implmented such a policy? Is insurance a real problem here?
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3Dreaming
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Re: AVED won't rent 162's to PIC without a medical?

Postby 3Dreaming » Thu Oct 27, 2011 8:36 am

eidolon45 wrote:I just saw some news from AVED based in N Virginia. They have instituted a new policy regarding their LSAs (Skycatchers). Their bulletin indicates they will no longer rent 162s to a PIC who doesn't hold a current medical. They cite insurance concerns as the reason. They will continue to rent to students with an instructor, but it is unclear if you can even solo in one of their planes. Any other schools or LSA renters out there that have implmented such a policy? Is insurance a real problem here?


When I could first get commercial insurance for sport pilot instruction the company I was with OK with no medical up until the student took the checkride. If they passed the checkride the insurance wouldn't cover them to fly home without a medical. I switched companies after trying several time to get them to change the policy. Tom

srhalter58
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Postby srhalter58 » Thu Oct 27, 2011 9:19 am

Sport Pilot plane rental is very frustrating. If you can find something close enough, there are many restrictions, high costs for any overnight trip, where you can and cant land, had to rent every 90 days, along with the normal scheduling, weather, etc issues. I called one place that had an Allegro and they told me I had to have 5 hours of instruction before I could even rent it!
The issue with rentals made me decide to purchase a used LSA or give up flying.. :)

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Daidalos
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Postby Daidalos » Thu Oct 27, 2011 12:36 pm

It is tough, The FBO I currently rent from required 5 hour checkouts also. You must also stay current and they require a check ride with one of their instructors annually, so you get an extra review between BFR's. They also make you sign all kinds of waivers and a statement regarding your health. It's not easy but you do it.

Fairfax VA. may be a long ride but check out CSP http://www.chesapeakesportpilot.com/. I used to fly with them and I had to drive all the way from Philadelphia. Great people and several LSA's on the field. No 162's but the useful load on those is a joke. May be a good training plane if you plan to move up to PP since it has a traditional engine with carb heat and mixture controls.
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PP ASEL Instrument

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Remember don't fly too close to the Sun.

eidolon45
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Medical to rent LSA

Postby eidolon45 » Thu Oct 27, 2011 1:44 pm

I trained with CSP all the way up through solo. Did a couple of solos, then had to drop out because of schedule and traveling conflicts. Great school with good rates. I got onto AVED's schedule a couple of times to see if I could get some training on a local Skycatcher, but never succeeded in getting a lesson because of the weight issue. I weigh 185 and my instructor was about 190. If the plane was topped off with gas, we couldn't fly.

AVED confirmed with me that their policy is no solo unless you have passed your 3d class medical. If I have to go through that hassle and expense, I will train on a cheaper non-LSA plane that is easier to find.
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drseti
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Re: AVED won't rent 162's to PIC without a medical?

Postby drseti » Thu Oct 27, 2011 6:17 pm

eidolon45 wrote:Their bulletin indicates they will no longer rent 162s to a PIC who doesn't hold a current medical.


I just spoke with one of the flight instructors at AVED, and apparently you misunderstood. I'm pleased to report that this is not the case. He assures me that pilots are welcome to fly their SkyCatcher with a driver's license as medical.

I weigh 185 and my instructor was about 190. If the plane was topped off with gas, we couldn't fly.


That's probably true. However, that same CFI tells me that AVED generally fills the 162 tanks only halfway (which is plenty for a lesson), so that should not be an issue.
The opinions posted are those of one CFI, and do not necessarily represent the FAA or its lawyers.
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zaitcev
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Postby zaitcev » Thu Oct 27, 2011 8:43 pm

Coincidentially, saw this today:
http://www.pilotsofamerica.com/forum/sh ... ostcount=3
One other thing of note. My flight school, though it offers some light sport aircraft for rent, requires a medical certificate for all PICs, citing insurance as a factor.
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patmike
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Postby patmike » Fri Oct 28, 2011 3:35 am

what if you have your own renters insurance? the school i go to requires me to have it.

wingsaircharter
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Insurance and check-outs

Postby wingsaircharter » Sat Mar 10, 2012 9:23 am

We are a flight school with a new Skycatcher that is available for rental and instruction in Wisconsin. As someone who rents airplanes and has for 20 years, I can tell you that the insurance company is often more strict about what you do than the FAA. When we tried to rent an Ercoupe several years ago, the insurance company that we were with at the time required that the renter pilot have a medical or be preapproved by them before being insured in the airplane. Things have lightened up a bit since then and it is now easier to find insurance carriers that do not require a medical when renting. That is the case with our current insurance on the Skycatcher. Regarding renters insurance: It is a great idea to carry it but it will not help out the flight school as the last poster suggested. It insures the pilot.

Checkouts: Renter pilots skills and qualifications vary greatly from pilot to pilot. You can't blame a school for wanting to protect their investment, reputation, and the pilot from himself by making sure the pilot is skilled enough to safely operate the airplane. It's not like going to Hertz and renting a car. With some pilots it may take 5 hours OR MORE to get the pilot used to the airplane and evaluate their skills. Others may be able to do it in two. I have had two pilots (not Sport)who left me to go fly with someone else because I was "milking" them for more money when they felt they were skilled enough. Both are dead from airplane crashes.

I'm am sure many of you will disagree with my post but I'm just sayin....

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Postby jnmeade » Sat Mar 10, 2012 10:20 am

"You can't blame a school for wanting to protect .....the pilot from himself "
I'd be interested in learning more about your duties and responsibilities to do this. After you have verified that the pilot is competent and current in your aircraft, what other criteria to you apply that focuses on whether the pilot needs protection from himself? Do you mean you check to see if he is suicidal or claims he's going to do low passes over his girl friend's house? Just interested in the extent to which we should be our brother's keeper and how you go about it.

wingsaircharter
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Postby wingsaircharter » Sat Mar 10, 2012 11:56 am

jnmeade wrote:"You can't blame a school for wanting to protect .....the pilot from himself "
I'd be interested in learning more about your duties and responsibilities to do this. After you have verified that the pilot is competent and current in your aircraft, what other criteria to you apply that focuses on whether the pilot needs protection from himself? Do you mean you check to see if he is suicidal or claims he's going to do low passes over his girl friend's house? Just interested in the extent to which we should be our brother's keeper and how you go about it.

I don't want to be my brother's keeper and protect him from himself in all aspects of his life....just in my airplanes. There are pilots who have egos that are larger than their abilities as a pilot. You can ususally tell that early on by their attitude and how they come across. If he says he is going to do low passes over his girlfriend's house that would be someone that I don't want to rent to. You feel much more confident letting someone use your airplane that has gone through your program and you have gotten to know them versus someone that comes in off the street looking for a short check out. To me, it isn't worth the risk.

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designrs
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Postby designrs » Mon Mar 12, 2012 1:45 pm

Re: Renting requirements:

LSA Make/Model Checkout and/or Transition Training: YES!
This is really needed to keep people safe.
Spend a couple of hours to get to know the plane that you are flying
with the comfort of experience in the right seat.

Renter's Insurance: Possibly.
Cheep and well worth the fee. AOPA has a great program.
Especially worthwhile for solo students / new pilots

Medical Requirement: HELL NO!!
Insurance companies should NOT have a right to require a medical.
There is no basis whatsoever in LSA claim history related to medical issues.
Requiring a medical is in complete conflict with FAA LSA licensing requirements.
- Richard

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drseti
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Postby drseti » Mon Mar 12, 2012 2:34 pm

Richard, you're right on target. I would add:

Self-assessment absolutely required. Pilot must ask himself or herself, "how am I feeling? Am I well rested, nourished, and hydrated? Any medical issues? Stresses or pressure at home or at work? Are my skills current? On a scale of 1 to 10, how important is it that I make this flight?". (anything over a 5 should be reason for immediately grounding yourself!)
The opinions posted are those of one CFI, and do not necessarily represent the FAA or its lawyers.
Prof H Paul Shuch
PhD CFII DPE LSRM-A/GL/WS/PPC iRMT
AvSport LLC, KLHV
fly@AvSport.org
AvSport.org
facebook.com/SportFlying
SportPilotExaminer.US

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drseti
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Postby drseti » Fri Aug 03, 2012 7:17 pm

Moving this thread to the new "Medical Issues" forum.
The opinions posted are those of one CFI, and do not necessarily represent the FAA or its lawyers.
Prof H Paul Shuch
PhD CFII DPE LSRM-A/GL/WS/PPC iRMT
AvSport LLC, KLHV
fly@AvSport.org
AvSport.org
facebook.com/SportFlying
SportPilotExaminer.US


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