RV12 down in MD

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SportPilot
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Re: RV12 down in MD

Postby SportPilot » Wed Apr 27, 2016 2:13 pm

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Last edited by SportPilot on Wed Apr 27, 2016 8:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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designrs
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Re: RV12 down in MD

Postby designrs » Wed Apr 27, 2016 2:14 pm

This prelimnary report fills in a lot of blanks. Tragic!

In reply to Cluemeister: We drive by automobile traffic accidents regurally and rarely think twice before getting in our cars and driving again. The sad fact is that accidents do and will happen... they are a reminder for all to be most careful and diligent, even when we think we already are.

Again, condolences to CSP and all effected.

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Re: RV12 down in MD

Postby Wm.Ince » Wed Apr 27, 2016 2:35 pm

Cluemeister wrote:That's a lot of skill and experience. As a pilot in training, this is the part I hate about aviation. If a guy with that much experience can get bit, what does that say about us greenhorns?
Nothing.
That withstanding, stay vigilant, pay attention to detail and try your best NEVER to become complacent.

After flying with thousands of others, I promised myself if I ever came to a position, where I thought I knew everything, it would be time for me to permanently "hang up the headset."

Still learning here.

This is not an insinuation, in any way, of the pilots involved in the accident. Let the investigation continue until all the facts are known.
Last edited by Wm.Ince on Sat Apr 30, 2016 8:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: RV12 down in MD

Postby MrMorden » Thu Apr 28, 2016 8:42 am

Gosh, I'm really wondering if that crash was survivable before the fire. :(
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Re: RV12 down in MD

Postby drseti » Thu Apr 28, 2016 8:54 am

It sounds like the classic base-to-final stall/spin scenario. Sadly, those accidents seldom are survivable.
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Re: RV12 down in MD

Postby MrMorden » Thu Apr 28, 2016 8:58 am

drseti wrote:It sounds like the classic base-to-final stall/spin scenario. Sadly, those accidents seldom are survivable.


From my reading it seems they made the turn okay and then mushed in on final with a stall/spin at the very end, maybe from very low altitude. They might not have gotten much speed up before impact. Almost sounds like engine trouble and an attempt to stretch the glide.
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Re: RV12 down in MD

Postby VL Roberts » Thu Apr 28, 2016 3:43 pm

http://www.wbaltv.com/news/small-plane- ... e/39106870

Before anyone concludes that the pilot spun or stalled the aircraft, take a look at this video. The longitudinal axis of the airplane appears to be perfectly aligned with the extended center line of the runway. The condition of the wreckage does not appear to be consistent with that of a spin impact. Note the scarring on the ground in trail of the aircraft. I've been to a few accident sites where the airplane had stalled and never saw any trail marks where the aircraft had continued to move forward, the aircraft had remained in place at the point of impact.

It is obvious from the video that if you were on final to this runway with a loss of engine power and it became apparent that you were not going to make the runway, you now had to get the plane down onto this field prior to the road and treeline.

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Re: RV12 down in MD

Postby 3Dreaming » Thu Apr 28, 2016 5:36 pm

VL Roberts wrote:http://www.wbaltv.com/news/small-plane-crashes-on-eastern-shore/39106870

Before anyone concludes that the pilot spun or stalled the aircraft, take a look at this video. The longitudinal axis of the airplane appears to be perfectly aligned with the extended center line of the runway. The condition of the wreckage does not appear to be consistent with that of a spin impact. Note the scarring on the ground in trail of the aircraft. I've been to a few accident sites where the airplane had stalled and never saw any trail marks where the aircraft had continued to move forward, the aircraft had remained in place at the point of impact.

It is obvious from the video that if you were on final to this runway with a loss of engine power and it became apparent that you were not going to make the runway, you now had to get the plane down onto this field prior to the road and treeline.


The conclusion was made based on the eyewitness account in the NTSB preliminary report, posted on page 1 of this thread.

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Re: RV12 down in MD

Postby VL Roberts » Thu Apr 28, 2016 5:59 pm

3Dreaming wrote:
VL Roberts wrote:http://www.wbaltv.com/news/small-plane-crashes-on-eastern-shore/39106870

Before anyone concludes that the pilot spun or stalled the aircraft, take a look at this video. The longitudinal axis of the airplane appears to be perfectly aligned with the extended center line of the runway. The condition of the wreckage does not appear to be consistent with that of a spin impact. Note the scarring on the ground in trail of the aircraft. I've been to a few accident sites where the airplane had stalled and never saw any trail marks where the aircraft had continued to move forward, the aircraft had remained in place at the point of impact.

It is obvious from the video that if you were on final to this runway with a loss of engine power and it became apparent that you were not going to make the runway, you now had to get the plane down onto this field prior to the road and treeline.


The conclusion was made based on the eyewitness account in the NTSB preliminary report, posted on page 1 of this thread.


Obviously. I was just adding some additional info that would seem to contradict the stall/spin scenario.

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Re: RV12 down in MD

Postby Merlinspop » Sat Apr 30, 2016 8:12 am

Cluemeister wrote:That's a lot of skill and experience. As a pilot in training, this is the part I hate about aviation. If a guy with that much experience can get bit, what does that say about us greenhorns?

I had a cat, Miles, who used to always get into a fight with a fox that lived in neighboring woods. He was a big, mean cat and often came back with tufts of fox fur in his mouth. But he loved to venture into those woods to go after his favorite thing; rabbits. But every day, he knew that going after a bunny might mean a tussle with the fox. A neighborhood kid noted the frequent fox encounters and asked why I thought the fox kept going after the cat. I told him, the fox only has to win once to be successful. Miles knew that every time he went into the woods, he had to be prepared, but the bunnies were worth the risk to him.

Our other cat never went near the wood line and was perfectly content with her risk/reward equation.

Know the risks. Be as skilled as you can be through training and study. Be vigilant in watching out for danger. Be ready to take immediate corrective action at first sign that something isn't right. Fate (for you Earnie Gann fans) only has to win once.

Cancer eventually caught Miles, but that fox never did.
- Bruce

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Re: RV12 down in MD

Postby VL Roberts » Sat Apr 30, 2016 8:30 am

Merlinspop wrote:
Cluemeister wrote:That's a lot of skill and experience. As a pilot in training, this is the part I hate about aviation. If a guy with that much experience can get bit, what does that say about us greenhorns?

I had a cat, Miles, who used to always get into a fight with a fox that lived in neighboring woods. He was a big, mean cat and often came back with tufts of fox fur in his mouth. But he loved to venture into those woods to go after his favorite thing; rabbits. But every day, he knew that going after a bunny might mean a tussle with the fox. A neighborhood kid noted the frequent fox encounters and asked why I thought the fox kept going after the cat. I told him, the fox only has to win once to be successful. Miles knew that every time he went into the woods, he had to be prepared, but the bunnies were worth the risk to him.

Our other cat never went near the wood line and was perfectly content with her risk/reward equation.

Know the risks. Be as skilled as you can be through training and study. Be vigilant in watching out for danger. Be ready to take immediate corrective action at first sign that something isn't right. Fate (for you Earnie Gann fans) only has to win once.

Cancer eventually caught Miles, but that fox never did.


What you say is interesting and true, but I think it is also why many would like to think that when there is a terrible accident it was due to pilot error. Pilot error is something we can control and therefor we can prevent it and not suffer the same fate as the other guy . But if it is a situation where the pilot did everything right and the outcome is horrible, that can be disconcerting.

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Re: RV12 down in MD

Postby designrs » Sat Apr 30, 2016 9:07 am

VL Roberts wrote:[if it is a situation where the pilot did everything right and the outcome is horrible, that can be disconcerting.

THIS.

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Re: RV12 down in MD

Postby Merlinspop » Sat Apr 30, 2016 9:57 am

VL Roberts wrote: But if it is a situation where the pilot did everything right and the outcome is horrible, that can be disconcerting.

Oh, I agree absolutely! Not everything that might happen can be successfully fended off. Sometimes, no matter what a person does or how well they're trained, the outcome might be bad. That's part of the risk/reward balance and everyone has to find their own balance point, and revisit frequently.

There is some degree of risk in everything; even doing nothing. That's not being fatalistic. It's reality. I don't advocate resigning oneself to fate, though. Do everything you can to be able to deal with as much as possible. Then look at those risks that are left and do the math.

BooBooKitty was perfectly happy to sit on the back deck and watch Miles. Her joy came from chasing bugs.
- Bruce

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Re: RV12 down in MD

Postby SportPilot » Sat Apr 30, 2016 11:07 am

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Last edited by SportPilot on Sun May 08, 2016 12:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: RV12 down in MD

Postby Merlinspop » Sat Apr 30, 2016 11:54 am

SportPilot wrote:Fate and luck are not part of the equation.


Quick Google...
"Fate: the development of events beyond a person's control".
"Luck: the things that happen to a person because of chance".

If, say, there's a 1:1000000 chance of a bird strike, and it happens to me, I'll deal with it and later say I had a spot of bad luck (and opine that the bird's luck was worse than mine). If the same thing occurred to you, you can characterize it however you choose. But someone who flies still should consider the potential for a bird strike. And engine failures. And a runway incursion while on short final, and any number of things. If the combined weight of those risks as well as unknown risks are too much for someone, then a different activity may be the better choice.

"The Development of Events Beyond a Person's Control is the Hunter" is a lousy title.
- Bruce


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