Fatal(1) Evektor Harmony in Russia

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FastEddieB
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Re: Fatal(1) Evektor Harmony in Russia

Postby FastEddieB » Fri Nov 07, 2014 10:00 pm

BrianL99 wrote:
What's the point of T&G's, Eddie? I see some value with an Instructor onboard, but not solo. Why not come to a full stop and complete the landing process?


I think in my case it's an example of the Law of Primacy.

I learned them that way in the beginning, so they will likely always seem natural to me.

If I'm feeling rusty, I sometimes go out and shoot a few touch and goes at Copperhill. Most natural thing in the world for me, with no perceived additional risk*.

I guess after each landing I could turn around, back taxi and then go from there. Just seems like a lot of extra motion - and time - when just taking off again is so easy.

But I understand the argument against, and would encourage pilots to do what they feel most comfortable with.

I do understand the rationale for full stops in taildraggers. Not so much for the night landings.


*Admittedly, I'm a proponent of nearly always using the full length of the runway, and that's something I give up on a touch and go. Then again, I try to land very close to the numbers, and don't have to begin the takeoff roll from a standstill, so I think the net difference in the point of rotation is pretty small.
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dstclair
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Re: Fatal(1) Evektor Harmony in Russia

Postby dstclair » Fri Nov 07, 2014 10:22 pm

FWIW -- I don't typically do touch-n-goes either, even though that was what I was taught. I believe the full take-off and landing sequence is better practice. Guess the Law of Primacy has some exceptions :)
dave

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Re: Fatal(1) Evektor Harmony in Russia

Postby FastEddieB » Fri Nov 07, 2014 10:24 pm

dstclair wrote:Guess the Law of Primacy has some exceptions :)


I'll second that! 8)
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CTLSi
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Re: Fatal(1) Evektor Harmony in Russia

Postby CTLSi » Fri Nov 07, 2014 10:42 pm

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Re: Fatal(1) Evektor Harmony in Russia

Postby SportPilot » Fri Nov 07, 2014 10:53 pm

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Re: Fatal(1) Evektor Harmony in Russia

Postby designrs » Fri Nov 07, 2014 11:02 pm

CTLSi wrote:Oh, 'experienced' pilots don't need to stay sharp or safe, that's right...


CTLSi, I've never slammed anyone on this board, but I've got to say, "Can it!"
We have some high-time respected instructors here like FastEddie and others presenting some very valid and enlightening points in a non-argumentive way that are very considerate of all points of view. We don't need the attitude.

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Re: Fatal(1) Evektor Harmony in Russia

Postby CTLSi » Sat Nov 08, 2014 10:53 am

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Re: Fatal(1) Evektor Harmony in Russia

Postby Wm.Ince » Sat Nov 08, 2014 11:16 am

CTLSi wrote:My comment stands. Safety is safety and no one should be allowed to get away with pretending to override common sense, and safe practice with the bogus idea that a 50 year stint in aviation imbues them with special magical powers in advising others to take dangerous shortcuts.

If you wanna simply accept poor advise or practice from an 'old timer' based on your metric of time in the air, fine. But if ANYONE, regardless of their 'resume' puts out garbage they will get a challenge...there are new pilots reading these boards and they should not be subjected to bad advise.

Safety is a domain not limited to the new pilots and the premise that the older guys somehow escape that responsibility based on their hours is absurd on it's face.
And this is coming from a guy who almost ran his brand new airplane (CT) out of fuel.
Amazing.
In aviation, you have a long way to go my friend.
There is a good reason why those "older guys" you reference . . . are so old.
I have seen guys like you before. Some left us early.
Be careful.
Bill Ince
CTSW
Retired Heavy Equipment Operator

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Re: Fatal(1) Evektor Harmony in Russia

Postby SportPilot » Sat Nov 08, 2014 12:40 pm

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Re: Fatal(1) Evektor Harmony in Russia

Postby drseti » Sat Nov 08, 2014 12:46 pm

Folks, I've edited the posts of some members who refer to other members by name. Except in cases where folks actually choose to sign their real names, we should respect our fellow pilots' right to privacy, and just use their screen names.

Thanks,
Paul
The opinions posted are those of one CFI, and do not necessarily represent the FAA or its lawyers.
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BrianL99
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Re: Fatal(1) Evektor Harmony in Russia

Postby BrianL99 » Sat Nov 08, 2014 1:02 pm

drseti wrote:Folks, I've edited the posts of some members who refer to other members by name. Except in cases where folks actually choose to sign their real names, we should respect our fellow pilots' right to privacy, and just use their screen names.

Thanks,
Paul


This is not directed at you Paul, nor even suggesting you should change your mind or handle the board differently .. it's only me editorializing.

I've been around Internet discussion boards for many years and at one time, had the most active Harley-Davidson board on the Internet. I've always been suspicious of people who are unwilling to use their "name". I understand that's sort of the "internet way", but to my way of thinking (admittedly old-fashioned), if you want spout off opinions, offer advice and criticize, you should do under your own byline.

In my book, the people like you, FastEddie and other others who are perfectly willing to use their name, are the ones who are usually on solid ground when voicing and opinion and are willing to back up their statements. I don't have to agree with them, but the "internet bandits" who hide behind a computer keyboard and spout nonsense, are the ones we probably shouldn't pay much attention to.

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Re: Fatal(1) Evektor Harmony in Russia

Postby 3Dreaming » Sat Nov 08, 2014 1:21 pm

I guess I am a little at odds with some on the use of touch and goes for primary flight training. I will do touch and goes with a pre solo student after they know and understand how to fly the pattern. When learning to fly you can practice climbs, turns, straight and level, and descents with and without flaps for extended periods of time. For most elements related to flying you can practice them for hours on end, but landings are different. Once the student has the pattern with all of these elements figured out the thing to work on is the actual landing. For each landing you have about 20 seconds that you learn or practice anywhere else. If you are taxiing back after each landing you will likely only get about 6 landings in a hour flight lesson, and that is only 2 minutes of landing practice. After the student can fly the pattern I prefer to do touch and goes to get more landing practice for an hour flight lesson. You can almost double the landing practice by doing T&G's. After all landings are the hardest thing for a student to learn, because it takes a 180 landings to get an hour of actual landing practice.

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Re: Fatal(1) Evektor Harmony in Russia

Postby drseti » Sat Nov 08, 2014 1:30 pm

You're right, Tom, that a full-pattern, full-stop taxi-back gives us only about 6 landings per hour. OTOH, that taxi-back affords us the opportunity to reflect on, review, discuss, and critique every single landing, while it's still fresh in the student's mind. I believe that has instructional value.
The opinions posted are those of one CFI, and do not necessarily represent the FAA or its lawyers.
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Re: Fatal(1) Evektor Harmony in Russia

Postby 3Dreaming » Sat Nov 08, 2014 1:47 pm

drseti wrote:You're right, Tom, that a full-pattern, full-stop taxi-back gives us only about 6 landings per hour. OTOH, that taxi-back affords us the opportunity to reflect on, review, discuss, and critique every single landing, while it's still fresh in the student's mind. I believe that has instructional value.


I agree, and the first landings I do with a student are to a full stop just for that reason. At some point the big mistakes that require taxi back and discussion will lead to the need to build the mental database. It is during this database building period that I prefer to do T&G's to add more info to the database. I make the call to go, and if there is need to talk about a particular landing we will taxi back.

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Re: Fatal(1) Evektor Harmony in Russia

Postby SportPilot » Sat Nov 08, 2014 1:52 pm

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