Autopilot to pilot: "your airplane!"

[comperini]

So the Skycatcher has that fancy synthetic vision display... I'm sure one of these days (or nights), some yahoo will use it to fly without any visual reference to anything, and of course crash. Super-lawyer will then sue the crap out of everyone for that.

[CharlieTango]

...

I also wonder about whether stick and rudder skills will remain sharp only flying the plane 10% of the time...

I'm surprised that low time pilots with a brand new airplane don't want to hand fly all the time. My AP works fine but I hand fly 99% of the time.

[drseti]

I would strongly urge everyone here with an autopilot to view the American Airlines training video on automation dependency that Eddie posted to another thread recently:

http://vimeo.com/64502012

(Later, when I get a chance, I will move a few of these posts to that autopilot thread.)

[CTLSi]

......

[CharlieTango]

Commercial pilots are not flying most of the time, it is both inefficient and more dangerous for them to fly hands on as they are in the air a LOT more than GA pilots. The 'skills' pilots lose are not just limited to a lot of autopilot flying. The most trained pilots in the air are new ones.

A day after you get your license you begin to get 'obsolete' and rusty on the wider range of skill and knowledge. So its nonsense to presume there is anything dangerous or different for those using an autopilot a lot.

Most pilots don't practice conditions they rarely see, like short field, soft field, emergency procedures, stalls and maneuvers etc. Why? Flying becomes routine, and the whole point is to fly, not practice a set of skills rarely used. So most don't do it.

If there is a problem it's not just with an autopilot, it's with the entire process of skill and knowledge currency for all pilots at all levels.

Living in the Eastern Sierra I have known a group of pilots for about 30years. The great majority did get their instrument ratings without about 1/2 of them keeping current. To say that this group has not advanced their skills over the decades is far from accurate. YMMV

Autopilot disconnects in light sport has been similar to unusual attitude training for me. Not a problems because it doesn't take a lot of altitude to recover but very interesting when it happens.

[ct4me]

I'll take issue with one of FastEddie's points.... I don't think flying with the autopilot is a bad thing, especially on a cross country. It relieves the pilot of some meaningless burden, and allows him/her to relax or concentrate on other things better. We all know the saying, "flying is hours of boredom punctuated by a few moments of terror". Most of the "hours of boredom" is straight-level cruising. That's when we let the 12-year old, or grandma, grab the stick. Not much happening or likely to happen.
I've flown from Phoenix to Seattle (and back) by hand. It was before my AP was fixed. Sometimes my hand was literally numb. I was tired and not paying attention to the outside and gauges as much I should, because I was using much of my brain keeping the plane level and on course. When cruising with the AP, I feel better while flying, arrive less tired, spend more time looking for traffic and doing instrument scans, and am probably in better shape to handle problems while in route.
I hate it when a argument about flying heads in the direction of "real' pilots blah blah blah... or "in my day...."

[FastEddieB]

I'll take issue with one of FastEddie's points.... I don't think flying with the autopilot is a bad thing, especially on a cross country.

Sorry if my last post led anyone to believe that flying with an autopilot is a bad thing. I did not mean to imply that.

I'll elucidate shortly.

[FlyingForFun]

Delete

[Nomore767]

"Commercial pilots are not flying most of the time, it is both inefficient and more dangerous for them to fly hands on as they are in the air a LOT more than GA pilots. The 'skills' pilots lose are not just limited to a lot of autopilot flying. The most trained pilots in the air are new ones."

At the airline we had training every 9 months. It was always at night and always IFR, in the sim. As automation advanced the newer autopilots became much more sophisticated from the 727 era. Even the DC10's 'advanced' flight deck became 'old' with the advent of the 767.
Our training became more sophisticated too. Although many criticize airline pilots for 'not hand flying' or 'actually flying' with the advent of the type of training in the video mentioned earlier the 'children of the magenta highway' graduated from wondering 'what's it doing now?' to becoming re-invested and flying the aircraft with the appropriate level of automation to the phase of flight. For example departing KEWR Newark on 22R requires a quick left turn for noise abatement followed by another quick turn to the right all while trying to be smooth and not scare the folks, being precise and not ring the noise abatement bell, clean up the aircraft via the after take-off/climb checklist, and contacting departure. Automation is actually a hinderance and so not used. The pilot flies better here than the a/p.
Due to the speed there would be a succession of climbs, level offs and frequency changes until passing through 10,000 where you could speed up and enter the cruise climb portion. Somewhere between here and FL180 the handling pilot would usually engage the a/p, carefully so that the a/p wouldn't jump to meet the speed/vertical speed or lateral navigation settings programmed for the flight management system, which was also following the flight plan uplinked by datalink into the glass displays back at the gate. At this point the a/p flies the chore of straight and level better than the pilot, usually.
Now the flying pilot is 'flying the autopilot' if you like and the non-flying pilot is monitoring the PF and traffic and communications. Hand flying is often done but due to speed and aerodynamic loads small inputs are required and even slightly too much is quickly felt in the cabin by passengers and cabin crew trying to do a service.
By the time you reach the upper flight levels the pilots are monitoring the flight path, weather etc but now performance and turbulence plays a role as the pilots try to find the best ride and the most efficient altitude. Hand flying here is critical as the margin between high speed stall and cruise isn't huge.
Arriving at an airport like KLAX requires concentration as the profile descent onto the ILS requires great precision and energy
management. "Flying' the a/p on the initial descent, following the flight path and adding speed brakes etc to make altitude restrictions and mandatory crossing altitudes is critical. Hand flying begins once established in the slot, unless you're experience enough to hand fly it all, and we did that a lot.
Meanwhile there are many other cockpit chores going on, company communications, maintenance write ups, and keeping things smooth for the folks in the cabin. Gradually the automation level reduces as the pilot takes back more and more physical responsibility to the controls in his/her hands.
Sometimes eg Heathrow or Charles DeGaulle the arrival weather is such than only aircraft capable of Cat 3B 200meters can land. The crew, a/c and runway all have to able to make that approach. In the 767 it required 3 a/p all on together, auto-throttles, and auto-brakes. The Capt 'flies' the approach by monitoring the performance of three autopilots all engaged together whilst the FO monitors the Captain and the approach; the aircraft will auto-land by requirement...basically at about 100' you'll suddenly see runway lights and the plane will flare and touch down. Spoilers deploy, auto-brakes kick in and the pilot applies reverse thrust. At 80kts the a/p is disconnected and now the crew has to get off the runway and find the gate in the low viz...the tower can't see you.
Newer aircraft now can allow pilots to handily to low minimums via the HUD (head up display).

Okay..so what's this got to do with LSA? Firstly, the a/p is basically a tool to ease workload and to make the flight safer. It's not a substitute for common sense or training, and the glass cockpit only enhances the information you need to make the flight successful.You don't always NEED it but it can be useful to have. I've tried to show that commercial pilots aren't just sitting there watching it work it's magic, they are flying the aircraft with the appropriate level of automation, or hand flying. I once had the a/ps placarded inop out of Heathrow so we literally had to hand fly to JFK for 8.5 hours...with a tolerance of 20' on the altimeter and 5 kts on the airspeed...it's a long day I can tell you.

It's true that recent graduates are often more proficient but so are those pilots who routinely do the maneuvers required on check flights or BFRs. Skills atrophy without use so it's good to practice. Coming out of simulator training having checked out to Cat 1, 2, 3a/B, for, NDB, VOR, ASR and GPS approaches and feeling pretty good with a new type rating...it's humbling to go out with a check airman and try to do a plain visual approach by hand. (The recent 777 accident at SFO comes to mind).
Same with decision making. Establishing no-go limits for yourself and personal minimums is a good thing, in my view. For example, especially if new in the airplane...not landing with say less than one hour's fuel until you're more comfortable. Going around if not on speed and established with the runway both laterally and vertically. Its a personal minimum and you're not worrying about your buddies on the bench 'critiquing' your landing or going around etc.
When we hear or read of an accident or incident..do we look at ourselves and change anything about our personal minimums? Do we incorporate that into our personal flying attitude and discipline? Will it make us better pilots? Did we learn anything? Could that have been us?

Flying for the airline didn't make me above anyone else. It's simply a very demanding set of skills required of the pilot and practices every day in the air and frequently in the sim which required intense training For me now flying as a sport pilot isn't a piece of cake. I still find it demanding in it's own way with a different set of skills required to fly this type of airplane. Glass cockpits, a/ps, etc are all tools to make the task easier or more efficient but it still requires and smart, sensible and disciplined pilot to fly an LSA.

Quite often a CFI will say, when I'm getting checked out in a new type of LSA, 'this should be easy for a guy with your experience' and my answer is always...'absolutely NOT'...and then I go out and show him why I'm right and he's wrong!

Cheers, Howard.

[FastEddieB]

Again, autopilots are wonderful things. Used the heck out of the STec in my Cirrus.

I was going to restate my position, but I think one can just go back and read my prior post.

I hate it when a argument about flying heads in the direction of "real' pilots blah blah blah... or "in my day...."

I also did not mean to imply "Real pilots don't need no steenkin' autopilots".

There does seem to be an issue of some pilots flying almost exclusively on autopilot, gradually losing their stick and rudder skills. Instructors see this in the Cirrus community. If you only hand fly the plane for takeoff and landing, you get very little actual flying experience. That actual hands on flying time is what builds skill.

As an analogy, I rarely navigate with anything other than the magenta line on the GPS. If my 496 fails, I have my iPad. If that fails, I have my iPhone. But if I had to fall back on pilotage and dead reckoning, I know for a fact I'd be very rusty.

[FastEddieB]

How was your EAA fly-in? I flew over to Greenwood, SC and a couple other airports on the way back to GVL.

A good time and a gorgeous day - met with Andy (MrMorden) and will post some photos tomorrow.

[Jack Tyler]

Excellent, informative write-up, Howard. Thanks for taking the time to present it. You reminded me of an 8,000 hour United Captain who bought a share in our Grumman Traveler. His attitude was exactly like the one your comments reflect: He considered himself to be learning a new set of skills, and it was instructive to watch him apply his professionalism to the task at hand.