in the blink of an eye

[yozz25]

I have experienced the buffetting feeling, and the mush in a stall.

Hopefully, I don't get distracted, but it happens.

The real problem is that we can't practice near the ground, or that is really not a problem.

One thing is that the CFI's have not explained to me in detail why we practice stalls, they simply say "we are simulating take off" For some students who find themselves 3000 agl doing this, it doesn't click since they are simply concentrating on the task, not the reason. This is normal.

You're scenario paints the picture for me.

And frictioning the throttle, we'll I guess you mean making sure it is tightly in place so as not to slide back. Now I understand why the hand holds the throttle fully in on takeoff and keeps the hand there.

hmm, this is good ground school.

yozz

[bryancobb]

Yozz,

You may very diplomatically discuss what you think would be a good way to practice with your instructor, before getting in the plane.

1) Let ... say... make 2500 ft AGL be YOUR "simulated" ground level.
2) Slow to the speed you normally are when you are climbing out after takeoff, and set up/trim out straight and level at 2500 AGL.
Pretend this is you, rolling down the runway, ready to pull back and takeoff.
3) Pull back and start your takeoff and climbout.

[YOUR GOAL HERE IS TO DO THE DEPARTURE STALL OVER AND OVER AT VARYING ALTITUDES ABOVE YOUR "GROUND LEVEL, SOMETIMES DETECTING THE STALL BEFORE IT OCCURS, AND SOMETIMES VERY SHORTLY AFTER YOU STALL, ALWAYS RECOVERING BEFORE YOU HIT THE SIMULATED GROUND AT 2500 AGL]

This, after repeating it dozens of times during your training, helps you develop a FEELING for the stall so you can prevent it, and the knowledge and experience to get out of a stall before hitting the ground, if you fail at preventing it.
BC

[yozz25]

Now you've explained it well.

I can see the problem both student and cfi have, explanation vs the actual lab.

This is a good practice run, of course 2500 above agl. I guess it's a matter of trying different angles of attack on simulated take off to see the point where you become "unsafe" and when you become so. Many variables to examine here that have to sink into your bones.

To be quite honest, the 20 hour mininum for this type of craft is just enough to barely make one able to "drive" on a sunny day.

Perhaps 40 to 60 hours is adequate.

We'll I'll keep you guys busy with my thoughts, it's more or less an exchange beteen master and student.

yozz

[JamesMN]

I find when try to get the CT to power on stall, especially solo, I practice transitioning from slow flight and when I get to 15 deg flaps, use about 4600 rpm and just keep the stick back. I keep the wings level with the rudder as the ailerons are basically useless once approaching the stall. With my feet on the horizon and usually quite a bit of rudder pressure, it will break into a forward stall. Sometimes depending on the wind, I can't get it to break for a power off stall at all. It will just mush around at 35-39k. Turning stall are also pretty uneventful. I was doing slow flight yesterday at 40 flaps and got it all the way down to 38 (about 2800 rpms) and it was still controllable and holding altititude. I find the CT a very tricky plane to fly compared to a cherokee or Technam P92 Eaglet. It requires much better rudder skills, xwind skills, and throttle/pitch management (all things that make a good pilot). I'm ready for my checkride, just waiting for a break in the wind which has been very stressfull. I can barely focus on working. I've been flying it for about a year and have 40 hours dual in it. I initally expected it to take alot less time and money but the training does pay off. I could be a slow learner or partied too much as a teenager, but at 44 they say the hand eye coordination makes it harder. Also, I flew about 3hrs per day for 5 days in a row last week preparing for my checkride. It was expensive but really allowed me to put things together more than an hour or 2 every week. I reccommend if you can afford it, fly as often as possible and it will cost less money in the long run. Also if you can, you would be better off going to a "sport pilot" experienced school. I was his first student in the CT and I'm sure this added to my need for additional training as a more experienced CT instructor would be able to detect weak areas quicker and be more in tune with what are the common struggles for students and what works to get them past that.

James

[FastEddieB]

Yozz,

I just came across this thread.

1) Why practice stalls in general? Well, nearly every landing should be at or very near the stall, so its good to be comfortable there.

2) The way you enter departure stalls is important. One should throttle back, then slow the plane, in level flight, to about the initial climb speed. Then, simultaneously apply full power (in small planes) while nailing the pitch at an attitude you know the plane cannot maintain. Then simply hold that attitude (with increasing back pressure) until either a full or an imminent stall occurs.

What I've seen too often is starting from too high an airspeed, applying full power, and then continuing to increase pitch until the stall. This can result in really steep pitch attitudes that are trickier while being less realistic at the same time.

Clear?

[ka7eej]

Yozz,

I am about your age.. Have over 50 hours dual and 30 hours solo.. Almost ready for checkride... Yes wind issues..I have the same feelings about stalls that you do... Have gone thru many pair of shorts.... My 18 Year old son soloed in my Allegro in 9 hours... Power on stalls he says wheeeeee lets do it again......Go Figure...
Brian

[yozz25]

I have been knocked out three times in a row already due to wind.

However, did have a talk with CFI and did some pretty nice landings, he agreed to just shut up and let me think. So the landing "mystery" is gone, no big deal. I simply before flare take a quick look at references on ground to judge height, gradually flare, then slowly ride it out pulling stick ever so gently back. It works, sometimes a bit crooked, but that will improve with time.

Sometimes less input from CFI is what is needed. Too much info going into the mind at a critical point is counter productive, you have to let CFI know when he should just act as your safety net and let you work out the problem.

Scheduled for monday, freaking wind I believe is coming again.

As for stalls, guess I will just take it slowly with Remos, watch the balls, feel for it, then slowly power on. No use rushing things way up there anyhow.

I spoke with chief CFI at school about the almost spin, he said "it's nothing, no big deal, if you spin, just pull power out"

Will solo soon, if wind dies down, I figure it should stop blowing by October.

Going to AZ in two weeks, scottsdale, maybe I'll do a lesson at their school for touch and goes.

Taking things philosophically at best, do practice with microsoft program, pretty good for learning glass display, recommended it to a fellow student with 90 hours who hinted she had trouble with slow maneuvers (flaps down)

It seems the AZ, southern NV area is plagued with winds.
yozz

[drseti]

It seems the AZ, southern NV area is plagued with winds.
yozz

The whole country is, Yozz. I had to cancel out a few students here in Pennsylvania recently. I think LSAs somehow attract winds...

[Bill]

Ahhh...that's where my (almost) 64 year old Ercoupe is fun. It handles crosswinds with ease. What keeps me on the ground is when it gets "too bumpy" to be comfortable.

[yozz25]

If I ever get a license, I'm actually thinking of buying a plane, lsa, but the wife will give me some grief that will never ever end. But hell, you only live once.

That will be one pissed off woman. Thinking about the grief gives me the willies. Any suggestions? I need help with this one!!!!!!!!

In any case, the cost of remos is out of the question, need something more reasonable, perhaps half the cost, perhaps even a partnership. Really don't know.

But I do need a hobby, don't play cards or do any of that stuff, the flying thing I think is for me. Gives me a reason to get up and go, and perhaps I can instruct other old buzzards in due time.

yozz
Scared to death of wife.

[not2old2fly]

Get one of the old LSA's (Cub, Luscombe, Ercoupe, whatever) and tell your wife it is a rare collectable investment that will appreciate over time (not true, but we are trying to help you out, OK?) Tell her that you are concerned for your retirement nest egg and that this is a very wise investment for the future. Once she gets used to the idea of you having an airplane, then you can sell it and get something newer.

[yozz25]

Hey, whatever works, works.

If I don't like it, can always sell it to the next sucker, er I mean new flyer.

yozz

[Bill]

Hey, whatever works, works.

If I don't like it, can always sell it to the next sucker, er I mean new flyer.

yozz

Not quite as far-fetched as it sounds. When I bought my 'Coupe I used money that I was thinking about putting into my 401K plan. That was about three weeks before financial investments went to h*ll. My plane is likely still worth the 26k I paid for it (or close to it). Had I put that 26K into the 401K I would be far, far behind what the 'Coupe is worth.

Plus so far I've had over a year and a half of pure enjoyment - in flying, tinkering with, and polishing "my" airplane. It is always ready to go when I want to fly. Much better for relaxation than a weekly massage (or therapy sessions). That R&R value alone is worth far more than meds and/or shrinks.

[yozz25]

Hmmm,

Coupe sounds good, maybe I'll go look at one, ticket is getting closer and closer as I get better at landing, the last difficult trick in the book.

As for what to do with cash, once you are retired, or near it, spend it, enjoy it, I'm seeing too many of my colleagues die and become ill over the past 5 years, and I'm only 57.

I keep telling people the same thing, if you got an itch, scratch it, we are only renting space here.

yozz

[Bill]

Yozz, I've got six years on ya. But that's the attitude I have because I've had too many friends and acquaintances drop out of the picture already. I'm still working and planning for the future but I am also taking time to have fun, a lot of fun, along the way.