www.avweb.com
Thursday, September 18, 2008.
http://www.avweb.com/avwebflash/news/Ce ... 816-1.html
"Federal investigators are on their way to Douglass, Kansas to investigate the crash of a Cessna Skycatcher LSA prototype Thursday. The pilot of the test aircraft was able to parachute to safety and was reportedly taken to hospital with minor injuries.
Cessna media relations personnel were unable to immediately respond to AVweb's request for more detailed information, but KAKE Television is reporting the aircraft crashed into a treeline near the boundary of Butler and Cowley Counties. The television station is quoting witnesses as saying they heard a loud pop and then saw sparks and the plane spiraling down. The pilot landed in a field about 400 yards from the aircraft. The TV station quoted a Cessna spokesman as saying the crash aircraft had about 150 hours on it.
The prototype first flew on March 8, and Cessna is planning on delivering the first customer aircraft in the first half of 2009. What the crash does to that schedule is unclear. There are close to 1,000 orders for the aircraft, which will be built in China and reassembled in three plants in the U.S."
Pilot parachuted down and survived.
Tom
Cessna Skycatcher crash
Moderator: drseti
Maybe they'll install a Cessna 150 tail.
That one works ok. Bill Kershner wrote all the spin training books for the FAA from spinning a 150 Aerobat. Then spun them as a business for years
Why use a different shaped vertical tail that is obviously in disturbed air during a spin? All the Cessna next gen designs have that odd vertical tail.
draw a line up at the angle of relative wind from the horizontal tail leading edge during a spin . The whole vertical fin is covered. Also a swept rudder hinge causes a pitch up when the rudder is fully deflected.
The pop and sparks may have been the pilot firing a spin recovery chute.
Wonder what altitude the pilot bailed out from. Did not land far away.
That one works ok. Bill Kershner wrote all the spin training books for the FAA from spinning a 150 Aerobat. Then spun them as a business for years
Why use a different shaped vertical tail that is obviously in disturbed air during a spin? All the Cessna next gen designs have that odd vertical tail.
draw a line up at the angle of relative wind from the horizontal tail leading edge during a spin . The whole vertical fin is covered. Also a swept rudder hinge causes a pitch up when the rudder is fully deflected.
The pop and sparks may have been the pilot firing a spin recovery chute.
Wonder what altitude the pilot bailed out from. Did not land far away.
"Perfection is finally attained not when there is no longer anything to add but when there is no longer anything to take away." Antoine de Saint Exupery
I read on another site that the spin was started at 10,000 ft. and the pilot bailed at 5,000. The aircraft was in a flat spin. The conjecture was that they were doing aft CG testing. We won't really know until we hear the details from Cessna, and it would be to their advantage to disclose what happened.
Charlie - if the BRS failed, and the pilot had to bail at 5000', what's the reliability of BRS deployment systems?
http://www.aero-news.net/news/genav.cfm ... &Dynamic=1
Aside from the "feel good" aspect - being able to save the plane (if it works) - ... does a BRS failure indicate another thing to worry about in the Skycatcher?
Tom
http://www.aero-news.net/news/genav.cfm ... &Dynamic=1
Aside from the "feel good" aspect - being able to save the plane (if it works) - ... does a BRS failure indicate another thing to worry about in the Skycatcher?
Tom
I'm guessing here but it was probably a vertical launch system.
Chute fires out above the airplane with the rocket but in a flat spin there is little or no airflow above the airplane. Not enough to inflate the chute.
Flat spin airplane is rotating about it's CG. About where the chute bridle is mounted to structure. The non inflated chute may have also fallen faster than the airplane and tangled in the airframe.
The highspeed BRS has a slider to prevent rapid opening. If there is no forward speed then it may not ever inflate.
The BRS is not a 100% device but would work in a normal spin or most other forms of failure. If you can stand the weight it's better than nothing in a situation where you have no control.
Years ago there was a guy with a Velocity or Cozy I forget which. Not a flat spin but he was in a deep stall where the main wing and canard stalled. He opened the canopy and was climbing out over the nose and canard trying to get enough weight forward so it would pitch down! Didn't work and He rode the airplane all the way to the ground into a swamp and survived. After that they mounted the prototype on a car hood in a vertical nose up attitude and tufted it. Simulating the airflow during the deep stall when driving down the runway. They came up with some aerodynamic fixes and CG limits so it would not happen again.
Full power cross control in a developed spin will flatten it out and speed rotation. elevator may not have any effect once it is truly flat.
For some interesting comparisons check out the old spin recovery rules from the late 40's. Those airplanes had to come out of a developed spin after 6 or so turns. Try that in a Cirrus.
Chute fires out above the airplane with the rocket but in a flat spin there is little or no airflow above the airplane. Not enough to inflate the chute.
Flat spin airplane is rotating about it's CG. About where the chute bridle is mounted to structure. The non inflated chute may have also fallen faster than the airplane and tangled in the airframe.
The highspeed BRS has a slider to prevent rapid opening. If there is no forward speed then it may not ever inflate.
The BRS is not a 100% device but would work in a normal spin or most other forms of failure. If you can stand the weight it's better than nothing in a situation where you have no control.
Years ago there was a guy with a Velocity or Cozy I forget which. Not a flat spin but he was in a deep stall where the main wing and canard stalled. He opened the canopy and was climbing out over the nose and canard trying to get enough weight forward so it would pitch down! Didn't work and He rode the airplane all the way to the ground into a swamp and survived. After that they mounted the prototype on a car hood in a vertical nose up attitude and tufted it. Simulating the airflow during the deep stall when driving down the runway. They came up with some aerodynamic fixes and CG limits so it would not happen again.
Full power cross control in a developed spin will flatten it out and speed rotation. elevator may not have any effect once it is truly flat.
For some interesting comparisons check out the old spin recovery rules from the late 40's. Those airplanes had to come out of a developed spin after 6 or so turns. Try that in a Cirrus.
