Hope this never happens to anyone:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=RDIiMJn9xuo
FAA Hand propping accident video *yikes!*
Moderator: drseti
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seaplane_tux
- Posts: 12
- Joined: Wed Feb 14, 2007 10:16 pm
- Location: The Great Pacific Northwest
Hand Propping
I find myself "Hand Propping" often. If there is not a Pilot at the controls, and sometimes even when there is, I Tie The Tail Down!!!
I've seen this same thing happen more then once.... We all know the dangers of Propping a plane but sometimes it just seems necessary at the time. "Take Precautions"
I've seen this same thing happen more then once.... We all know the dangers of Propping a plane but sometimes it just seems necessary at the time. "Take Precautions"
Klaus
Arlington, Washington
Arlington, Washington
You know, yesterday before I read your post, it was the first time I had heard about tieing down the tail when propping. This morning I just opened up this thread and saw your comment!
The other one I recently read about was that you could stand behind the prop near the controls and use your right hand to spin the prop.
Tying down the tail may not be feasible if you're flying alone off airport like on a rugged landing strip, is it? Or, you could tie the tail to a tree or something?
I'd like to read more information about this procedure, if possible.
The other one I recently read about was that you could stand behind the prop near the controls and use your right hand to spin the prop.
Tying down the tail may not be feasible if you're flying alone off airport like on a rugged landing strip, is it? Or, you could tie the tail to a tree or something?
I'd like to read more information about this procedure, if possible.
Prop
I prop the cub several times each day. It has no impulse couplings.
Cold 3 shots prime, Leave carb heat out, pull through four blades switch off, switch on, starts on first attempt.
Hot start just crack the throttle a little and hopefully it starts the first pull.
For safety sake when alone I tie the airplane in a tiedown. All three ties frequently. Leave fuel off until you can reach the controls. Untie left wing first, then right wing and last tail. When walking to the front seat brush against the forward side of the wing strut to keep a mental note that you are behind the invisible spinning prop.
I am left handed so I always stand in front to prop. I never liked propping from the rear because if it kicks back it breaks your knuckles and I catch my thumb on the exhaust pipe. On floats you have no choice.
It doesn't take a mighty heave or legs swinging in the air like you sometimes see.
Hot starts are the most dangerous because you need a little throttle on to keep from flooding. If it floods then it's wide open throttle and pull it through backwards 12 blades. Then it will start on the next attempt.
If the person is not a pilot I have them hold the tail handle and tie down if available. I would rather NOT have them at the controls.
Leave the fuel turned off until you can get to the throttle.
double check switch position, throttle position and don't trust yourself.
The cub is nice because you can see the mag switch position while standing in front of the airplane.
Most dangerous to prop is a large engine tricycle gear 6 cylinder engine. Cessna 182 for example. Also VW powered tricycle gear airplanes.
Propping is both easy and safe with a little planning and attention.
sometime I would like to start an OX-5.
Cold 3 shots prime, Leave carb heat out, pull through four blades switch off, switch on, starts on first attempt.
Hot start just crack the throttle a little and hopefully it starts the first pull.
For safety sake when alone I tie the airplane in a tiedown. All three ties frequently. Leave fuel off until you can reach the controls. Untie left wing first, then right wing and last tail. When walking to the front seat brush against the forward side of the wing strut to keep a mental note that you are behind the invisible spinning prop.
I am left handed so I always stand in front to prop. I never liked propping from the rear because if it kicks back it breaks your knuckles and I catch my thumb on the exhaust pipe. On floats you have no choice.
It doesn't take a mighty heave or legs swinging in the air like you sometimes see.
Hot starts are the most dangerous because you need a little throttle on to keep from flooding. If it floods then it's wide open throttle and pull it through backwards 12 blades. Then it will start on the next attempt.
If the person is not a pilot I have them hold the tail handle and tie down if available. I would rather NOT have them at the controls.
Leave the fuel turned off until you can get to the throttle.
double check switch position, throttle position and don't trust yourself.
The cub is nice because you can see the mag switch position while standing in front of the airplane.
Most dangerous to prop is a large engine tricycle gear 6 cylinder engine. Cessna 182 for example. Also VW powered tricycle gear airplanes.
Propping is both easy and safe with a little planning and attention.
sometime I would like to start an OX-5.
"Perfection is finally attained not when there is no longer anything to add but when there is no longer anything to take away." Antoine de Saint Exupery
I should say any 6 cylinder with 2 bladed prop
The compression stroke is in the proper place only every other revolution. You need to have the person in the cockpit turn the switch off and on every other attempt while you reposition the prop.
The VW's turn backwards putting you in unfamiliar territory. They have no inertia to help the engine through compression so a lot of times they bounce backwards as you hit top center. And they usually start to high RPM with no warning.
Tricycle gear makes you lean over the prop to pull things through. Run the risk of falling into the prop disk. You cannot get your weight behind the pull and instead rely on pure arm motion.
Also bad is someone who runs the battery dead in a lycoming powered 172 for example and wants a prop. It is much harder to turn with the starter engaged. Make them wait to charge the battery.
The little A-65 is just the right height in the cub and can be propped with one hand. The vagabond, chief, champ etc are a little lower but still ok.
The compression stroke is in the proper place only every other revolution. You need to have the person in the cockpit turn the switch off and on every other attempt while you reposition the prop.
The VW's turn backwards putting you in unfamiliar territory. They have no inertia to help the engine through compression so a lot of times they bounce backwards as you hit top center. And they usually start to high RPM with no warning.
Tricycle gear makes you lean over the prop to pull things through. Run the risk of falling into the prop disk. You cannot get your weight behind the pull and instead rely on pure arm motion.
Also bad is someone who runs the battery dead in a lycoming powered 172 for example and wants a prop. It is much harder to turn with the starter engaged. Make them wait to charge the battery.
The little A-65 is just the right height in the cub and can be propped with one hand. The vagabond, chief, champ etc are a little lower but still ok.
Thanks for the informative post, cubflyer. I can see you know your stuff;)
When I was a kid they told me to hold down the brakes as I sat in the back seat of a supercub while the pilot hand propped.
I also like your advice about brushing up against the fuselage as a constant reminder that there's an invisible prop spinning. I wasn't there, but a friend forgot about that and ran right into the prop and split his skull open. Yea, he lived, but barely.
When I was a kid they told me to hold down the brakes as I sat in the back seat of a supercub while the pilot hand propped.
I also like your advice about brushing up against the fuselage as a constant reminder that there's an invisible prop spinning. I wasn't there, but a friend forgot about that and ran right into the prop and split his skull open. Yea, he lived, but barely.
I normally start the cub and get in the front seat to give instruction.
My normal process is pull the engine through with a small step backwards at the same time. That way if I were to fall my weight is already traveling away from the prop disk.
I then turn 90 deg left and walk diagonally away and back from the prop disk until I am about 20 ft in front of the left wing tip. Keeping an eye over my shoulder to see if the student lets the airplane creep forward.
Then I head to the wing tip and signal the student to pull the throttle to low idle.
If everything looks good I walk from the wing tip to just behind the left main tire with one hand on the strut and brushing against the strut. I'm walking forward of the struts on the cub. From there I can get in the front seat.
The cub has struts which mount to the fuselage in the middle of the wing chord. Other designs like a Vagabond or champ I would enter from behind the strut.
One other trick. I had a Vagabond for a while. I rigged up a set of chocks with cords. I would chock the airplane, Run the chords up to the strut and loosely tie. Then prop, Get into the seat and pull the chocks up into the airplane.
As a side trick you can park an airplane in a tight spot U shaped spot by pulling face in. Put your right wing tip near one wall. Lock left brake and rotate around. Works in the opposite direction also.
The trick is you can see your wing tip and the distance from the main gear to tail is usually shorter than the distance from the left main to right tip.
The tail will always clear on most tailwheel airplanes.
It may also work on castoring nose gear airplanes.
Walk it through some time pushing by hand with the engine not running to see what I mean.
It's useful with a heavy airplane and nobody around to help push.
Don't do this around other airplanes because your prop blast will not make you a crowd favorite.
My normal process is pull the engine through with a small step backwards at the same time. That way if I were to fall my weight is already traveling away from the prop disk.
I then turn 90 deg left and walk diagonally away and back from the prop disk until I am about 20 ft in front of the left wing tip. Keeping an eye over my shoulder to see if the student lets the airplane creep forward.
Then I head to the wing tip and signal the student to pull the throttle to low idle.
If everything looks good I walk from the wing tip to just behind the left main tire with one hand on the strut and brushing against the strut. I'm walking forward of the struts on the cub. From there I can get in the front seat.
The cub has struts which mount to the fuselage in the middle of the wing chord. Other designs like a Vagabond or champ I would enter from behind the strut.
One other trick. I had a Vagabond for a while. I rigged up a set of chocks with cords. I would chock the airplane, Run the chords up to the strut and loosely tie. Then prop, Get into the seat and pull the chocks up into the airplane.
As a side trick you can park an airplane in a tight spot U shaped spot by pulling face in. Put your right wing tip near one wall. Lock left brake and rotate around. Works in the opposite direction also.
The trick is you can see your wing tip and the distance from the main gear to tail is usually shorter than the distance from the left main to right tip.
The tail will always clear on most tailwheel airplanes.
It may also work on castoring nose gear airplanes.
Walk it through some time pushing by hand with the engine not running to see what I mean.
It's useful with a heavy airplane and nobody around to help push.
Don't do this around other airplanes because your prop blast will not make you a crowd favorite.
I'll leave out the names.
One of the operators in Talkeetna was pulling his Super Cub through on a cold morning. He had left the mag switch on and it fired.
Broke both arms just below the elbows. Guess who quit smoking that winter. He said he climbed up from under the airplane and had to look to see if the switch was on.
Another guy borrowed a T craft on skis. Flew to a ice covered lake and for some reason shut it off.
Now he is propping on glare ice. Nobody told him he could prop it from behind. It started at a fast clip and tried to run him over. He put his gloved hands forward and cupped the scull cap spinner.
Now he is getting pushed backwards on glare ice by the running airplane with his hands on the spinner and accelerating. Realizing the shore is coming up he makes a mighty heave and pushes off backwards. The prop slices his thick coat but misses his vital parts. Airplane runs over him and runs up the bank into the willows and is merrily idling away.
Our hero drags it out and flies back to town needing a new snowmachine suit and underwear.
There was also a tripacer several years ago that was propped incorrectly and flew from washington state without it's pilot and landed undamaged in a field in Oregon. Farmer called the name on the registration wondering about the airplane in his field.
That's a big free flight to chase.
One of the operators in Talkeetna was pulling his Super Cub through on a cold morning. He had left the mag switch on and it fired.
Broke both arms just below the elbows. Guess who quit smoking that winter. He said he climbed up from under the airplane and had to look to see if the switch was on.
Another guy borrowed a T craft on skis. Flew to a ice covered lake and for some reason shut it off.
Now he is propping on glare ice. Nobody told him he could prop it from behind. It started at a fast clip and tried to run him over. He put his gloved hands forward and cupped the scull cap spinner.
Now he is getting pushed backwards on glare ice by the running airplane with his hands on the spinner and accelerating. Realizing the shore is coming up he makes a mighty heave and pushes off backwards. The prop slices his thick coat but misses his vital parts. Airplane runs over him and runs up the bank into the willows and is merrily idling away.
Our hero drags it out and flies back to town needing a new snowmachine suit and underwear.
There was also a tripacer several years ago that was propped incorrectly and flew from washington state without it's pilot and landed undamaged in a field in Oregon. Farmer called the name on the registration wondering about the airplane in his field.
That's a big free flight to chase.
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CharlieTango
- Posts: 1000
- Joined: Sat Jun 10, 2006 10:04 am
- Location: Mammoth Lakes, California
Imagine trying to fix the damage
Do a Aircraft Damage History on this one! N279W See the aircraft seller explain the way out of that one! We found Plane Fax Reports on www.aircraftmarketplace.com the aviation directory and resource that sells used planes, preowned aircraft for sale & a complete directory of aircraft services. The aircraft damage history reports have been invaluable before buying an aircraft. They come complete with the FAA aircraft file. We run one on every aircraft we are considering to buy.
AviatFam
Wow!
I can't even imagine the hysterics going on at that moment. I guess that puts a damper on turning the passenger on to the fun of flying.
Speaking of pilot error, here's an amusing clip that made me laugh. I hope it does you.
http://url.www.youtube.com/watch?v=UHnDWZAehac
Safe flights always,
KSTS
Speaking of pilot error, here's an amusing clip that made me laugh. I hope it does you.
http://url.www.youtube.com/watch?v=UHnDWZAehac
Safe flights always,
KSTS