Turning approach to landing

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drseti
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Re: Turning approach to landing

Postby drseti » Mon Jul 17, 2017 7:57 am

TimTaylor wrote: The Garmin lady usually screams 500 agl as I'm starting to turn on final.


That's exactly where you want to hear her. We who have been fortunate enough to be in successful longterm marriages know that the only appropriate response to that is "yes dear."
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MrMorden
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Re: Turning approach to landing

Postby MrMorden » Mon Jul 17, 2017 9:10 am

Jim Hardin wrote:The 'safety' side is that pilots will never stall/spin again. That is because they will never have to make a sharp banked turn from base to final.


Just not buying this. What causes stall/spin accidents in the pattern is not "making sharp banked turns", it's being uncoordinated (specifically skidding) at too high an AoA (low airspeed is a rough analog). How does making one shallow turn instead of two steeper turns keep the ball centered or airspeed high/AoA low?

There are no "cheats" to relieve the pilot of having to actually fly and monitor the airplane.
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Re: Turning approach to landing

Postby MrMorden » Mon Jul 17, 2017 9:14 am

FastEddieB wrote:Also not keen.

I fly a tight pattern, so my base is very brief. Still, I think if it as "the pause that refreshes" - a chance to roll wings level, see what effect any crosswind might have had, go to landing flaps (optional) and check the final approach path for traffic one more time.

I'd hate to give that up for some as yet undocumented benefit.


Agreed, I do the same. My base is usually less than 30 seconds, and often less than 15 seconds. But it's there. If you go into a big fly-in like Oshkosh and start trying to "cheat" the pattern, people *will* get very upset.
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Re: Turning approach to landing

Postby smutny » Mon Jul 17, 2017 11:47 am

I fly the constant curved approach when flying my Christen Eagle and Pitts, keeping the TDZ in sight until the flare. You do have to keep an eye out for a/c on final as well, it's not that hard.

In the Cub, I find myself doing a base leg, but it's pretty short. Been doing the curved approach so long, it feels more normal.

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Re: Turning approach to landing

Postby MrMorden » Mon Jul 17, 2017 1:08 pm

I have done the curved downwind-to-final thing a couple of times. There were reasons for doing so, though I can't remember now what they were (engine out practice maybe?). When doing this I made the call: "Winder traffic, Flight Design 509CT turning downwind direct to short final, runway 31." Also, there was nobody else in the pattern at the time.
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Re: Turning approach to landing

Postby FastEddieB » Mon Jul 17, 2017 2:45 pm

smutny wrote:You do have to keep an eye out for a/c on final as well, it's not that hard.



I think the difficulty of seeing traffic on final will depend on configuration and bank angle. A low wing with a long span may completely block the pilot's view past the raised wing. At standard rate, that can be a full minute blind unless you briefly level the wings and look. Even a short base takes care of that.
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Re: Turning approach to landing

Postby MrMorden » Tue Jul 18, 2017 8:35 am

smutny wrote:I fly the constant curved approach when flying my Christen Eagle and Pitts, keeping the TDZ in sight until the flare. You do have to keep an eye out for a/c on final as well, it's not that hard.

In the Cub, I find myself doing a base leg, but it's pretty short. Been doing the curved approach so long, it feels more normal.


The Eagle and Pitts have pretty short wings (though two of them!), so it's probably not too hard for those airplanes. Something like a motorglider would certainly have bigger blind spots.
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Re: Turning approach to landing

Postby smutny » Tue Jul 18, 2017 12:10 pm

The Eagle has the biggest blind spot of any aircraft I've every flown, even more than a single hole Pitts. Most gliders, motor and not, have the pilot sitting in front of the wing providing great visibility.

Curved or square approach, your time to identify conflicting final approach traffic is really before turning from the downwind. No matter which approach you use, you're busy in the cockpit and any subsequent looks should just be verifying what you have already determined before committing.

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Jim Hardin
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Re: Turning approach to landing

Postby Jim Hardin » Mon Jul 24, 2017 6:00 am

smutny wrote:
...No matter which approach you use, you're busy in the cockpit and any subsequent looks should just be verifying what you have already determined before committing.


Busy doing what?

I find the approach to landing the quietest time of the flight (noise and workload). All checklists are complete on downwind nothing left to do on base/final but monitor airspeed and glidepath and watch for other traffic - birds, planes, cars & trucks. Even time during that period for a little sightseeing :mrgreen:

Even do a double check of the essentials, carb heat, gear, boost pump flaps.

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Re: Turning approach to landing

Postby smutny » Mon Jul 24, 2017 11:35 am

All the additional things you listed make it far busier than serene in my opinion. And exactly what I was getting at.

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Re: Turning approach to landing

Postby TimTaylor » Thu Aug 10, 2017 6:28 pm

smutny wrote:I fly the constant curved approach when flying my Christen Eagle and Pitts, keeping the TDZ in sight until the flare. You do have to keep an eye out for a/c on final as well, it's not that hard.

In the Cub, I find myself doing a base leg, but it's pretty short. Been doing the curved approach so long, it feels more normal.

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