private pilot privileges

Paul Hamilton is one of the first persons to become a DPE (Designated Pilot Examiner) for sport pilots. As a full-time author and sport pilot expert, he writes books and produces DVD's for Aviation Supplies and Academics (ASA). Now Paul has graciously agreed to answer your questions here. Thanks Paul! For more information about Paul, please visit www.Paul-Hamilton.com and www.Sport-Pilot-Training.com.

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jessde
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private pilot privileges

Postby jessde » Sun Nov 11, 2018 10:34 pm

Do I understand correctly that since I have a private lic., when flying a light sport aircraft I maintain the privileges of that license regardless of whether
I'm current with medical and flight review?
Jess

TimTaylor
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Re: private pilot privileges

Postby TimTaylor » Sun Nov 11, 2018 10:44 pm

I'm sure you will get other replies, but the answer is no. If you are flying a light sport aircraft (LSA) using your driver's license as your medical, you are a Private Pilot exercising Sport Pilot privileges and limitations. You can google to find the FAR that spells that out precisely.

That said, you can do Basic Med if your 3rd class medical was in force any time after 7/15/06 and exercise your Private Pilot privileges in just about any aircraft you would ever want to fly including twins. There could be some limitations with this that I am not aware of.

Regardless, all pilots require a flight review every two years to act as PIC.
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TimTaylor
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Re: private pilot privileges

Postby TimTaylor » Sun Nov 11, 2018 11:28 pm

https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/14/part-61/subpart-J

Note: Since you are a Private Pilot, you won't need the endorsements that a Sport Pilot would need.
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FastEddieB
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Re: private pilot privileges

Postby FastEddieB » Mon Nov 12, 2018 8:10 am

Tim nailed it.

Though a Commercial Pilot, with my expired medical I was subject to Sport Pilot limitations for years while flying my Sky Arrow. Never made sense to me, since my skillset remained intact, but there you have it.

As Tim said, those limitations went away with BasicMed. Still barred from Commercial privileges. I wish they would carve out an exclusion for non-passenger-carrying operations such as ferrying aircraft, but it is what it is.
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Jim Hardin
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Re: private pilot privileges

Postby Jim Hardin » Mon Nov 12, 2018 10:16 am

One little subtle thing to note with folks exercising Sport Pilot privileges while holding a higher certificate is the Three miles visibility requirment of SP.

Many think that you can still do a Special VFR or fly with less in uncontroled airspace... NO, 3 miles is 3 miles without any acceptions.

But scud running was never realy fun, so enjoy the 3 miles :D

TimTaylor
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Re: private pilot privileges

Postby TimTaylor » Mon Nov 12, 2018 1:34 pm

Jim Hardin wrote:One little subtle thing to note with folks exercising Sport Pilot privileges while holding a higher certificate is the Three miles visibility requirment of SP.

Many think that you can still do a Special VFR or fly with less in uncontroled airspace... NO, 3 miles is 3 miles without any acceptions.

But scud running was never realy fun, so enjoy the 3 miles :D

Yes, when it says Sport Pilot privileges and limitations, it means Sport Pilot privileges and limitations.
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TimTaylor
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Re: private pilot privileges

Postby TimTaylor » Mon Nov 12, 2018 1:38 pm

FastEddieB wrote:Tim nailed it.

Though a Commercial Pilot, with my expired medical I was subject to Sport Pilot limitations for years while flying my Sky Arrow. Never made sense to me, since my skillset remained intact, but there you have it.

As Tim said, those limitations went away with BasicMed. Still barred from Commercial privileges. I wish they would carve out an exclusion for non-passenger-carrying operations such as ferrying aircraft, but it is what it is.

The logic is your skill set may have diminished. Since you are no longer getting FAA physicals, they have no way to know that other than the flight review. A CFI would not necessarily be in a position to judge cognitive issues, etc. The FAA remedied this to a degree with Basic Med.
Commercial Pilot Airplane Single & Multiengine Land; Instrument Airplane; Sport Endorsement Airplane Single Engine Sea; Flight Instructor Airplane Single And Multiengine; Ground Instructor Advanced Instrument

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FastEddieB
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Re: private pilot privileges

Postby FastEddieB » Mon Nov 12, 2018 2:33 pm

TimTaylor wrote:The logic is your skill set may have diminished. Since you are no longer getting FAA physicals, they have no way to know that other than the flight review. A CFI would not necessarily be in a position to judge cognitive issues, etc. The FAA remedied this to a degree with Basic Med.


Point taken.

I had this discussion recently with another pilot who has a few years on me (I’m 69). About how a slow decline in cognitive ability might hamper one’s ability to perceive when that decline had become problematic, and maybe it was time to pursue a different hobby.

It just seemed odd that one day I was fine to fly at 10,001’, and then next day not, solely because a card in my wallet expired. But you make a good point.
Fast Eddie B.
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Re: private pilot privileges

Postby TimTaylor » Mon Nov 12, 2018 2:40 pm

I think I recognize this to a small degree in myself. That's why I am content flying with Sport Pilot privileges in LSA. Even if I qualified for Basic Med, which I don't, I don't think I would be flying IFR except maybe to bust through an early morning fog bank, etc. That's also why I am no longer driving a 200+ mph dragster. :shock:
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TimTaylor
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Re: private pilot privileges

Postby TimTaylor » Mon Nov 12, 2018 6:05 pm

Exercising Commercial Pilot privileges usually means other people, such as paying passengers, are being put at risk. Commercial Pilots, therefore, are held to a higher standard than Private Pilots who are flying alone or with friends and family. I think they wrote the Basic Med as loose as possible, but too lose for a Commercial Pilot. The Sport Pilot medical requirements are even looser since it's just you and one passenger and in an LSA only.

EDIT: This conclusion assumes the 2nd class FAA medical is of some value in determining fitness for flight. I guess that is debatable.
Last edited by TimTaylor on Mon Nov 12, 2018 6:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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FastEddieB
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Re: private pilot privileges

Postby FastEddieB » Mon Nov 12, 2018 6:12 pm

TimTaylor wrote:Exercising Commercial Pilot privileges usually means other people, such as paying passengers, are being put at risk. Commercial Pilots, therefore, are held to a higher standard...


Which is why I proposed "I wish they would carve out an exclusion for non-passenger-carrying operations such as ferrying aircraft...".

Other examples might be banner towing, crop dusting, aerial photography, that sort of thing.

Not complaining, but it would be nice for me if I could earn a few extra dollars ferrying aircraft.

As it is, as A CFI, I could give dual to a pilot who had just purchased a plane and wanted to get transition training while flying it home. But not make the same flight without him and charge for it. Just seems a little odd.
Fast Eddie B.
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TimTaylor
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Re: private pilot privileges

Postby TimTaylor » Mon Nov 12, 2018 6:18 pm

FastEddieB wrote:
TimTaylor wrote:Exercising Commercial Pilot privileges usually means other people, such as paying passengers, are being put at risk. Commercial Pilots, therefore, are held to a higher standard...


Which is why I proposed "I wish they would carve out an exclusion for non-passenger-carrying operations such as ferrying aircraft...".

Other examples might be banner towing, crop dusting, aerial photography, that sort of thing.

Not complaining, but it would be nice for me if I could earn a few extra dollars ferrying aircraft.

As it is, as A CFI, I could give dual to a pilot who had just purchased a plane and wanted to get transition training while flying it home. But not make the same flight without him and charge for it. Just seems a little odd.

I guess I should have said Commercial Pilot usually means other people and property are being put at risk. What you're proposing is tantamount to a Commercial Pilot and Almost Commercial Pilot. I would be happy with Basic Med. I think the FAA has bent over backwards to accommodate the aging pilot population who can no longer pass a 2nd or 3rd class medical (much less a 1st class medical).

It's sort of like people with lots of money. The more they have, the more they want. When is enough, enough?

EDIT: I guess I should say some people, not all.
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foresterpoole
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Re: private pilot privileges

Postby foresterpoole » Wed Nov 14, 2018 9:31 pm

FastEddieB wrote:
TimTaylor wrote:Exercising Commercial Pilot privileges usually means other people, such as paying passengers, are being put at risk. Commercial Pilots, therefore, are held to a higher standard...


Which is why I proposed "I wish they would carve out an exclusion for non-passenger-carrying operations such as ferrying aircraft...".

Other examples might be banner towing, crop dusting, aerial photography, that sort of thing.

Not complaining, but it would be nice for me if I could earn a few extra dollars ferrying aircraft.

As it is, as A CFI, I could give dual to a pilot who had just purchased a plane and wanted to get transition training while flying it home. But not make the same flight without him and charge for it. Just seems a little odd.[/quoted]

I'm pretty sure what you just listed IS allowed under § 91.501 aerial work exceptions. I'm not going to argue what or how a FSDO would interpret this rule as I've seen conflicting rulings based on who you ask, but it's the reason a simple private pilot can operate an aerial photography operation without a commercial liscense or a "corporate" pilot does not need a commercial liscense so long as the hold out requirements are meet. It's also the reason why, if needed I've been told by our in house lawyer I can fly (Exercising Private Pilot Privileges) with another employee to our plant site in Texas or while conducting damage assessments to our timber. Please note I've never done this, I've been informed by our counsel that I could if the need presented itself.
Ed

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FastEddieB
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Re: private pilot privileges

Postby FastEddieB » Wed Nov 14, 2018 9:54 pm

91.501 is new to me, and contains lots of legalese.

But under “Applicability” it says:

“(a) This subpart prescribes operating rules, in addition to those prescribed in other subparts of this part, governing the operation of large airplanes of U.S. registry, turbojet-powered multiengine civil airplanes of U.S. registry, and fractional ownership program aircraft of U.S. registry that are operating under subpart K of this part in operations not involving common carriage.”

So, don’t see how it applies to me.

And later, it outlines what “may be charged as expenses”. Not compensation.

Pretty sure if someone pays me to ferry a plane, that requires a Commercial license (which I have) with current Class 2 Medical (which I don’t).

I’d love to be proven wrong, though.
Fast Eddie B.
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TimTaylor
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Re: private pilot privileges

Postby TimTaylor » Wed Nov 14, 2018 10:19 pm

I've never seen that, but it looks like a cost sharing thing for corporate aircraft, to me.
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