Dual xcountry 2 hour requirement, how far ?

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spaulus
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Dual xcountry 2 hour requirement, how far ?

Postby spaulus » Mon Mar 06, 2017 11:26 pm

Is there a minimum, nautical mileage
distance, one way, required to meet this training
requirement ? ( As in ' Private' , which demands more than a 50 NM trip, from base ) .
FAR 61.313 (a)(1)(I)
Thank you

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MrMorden
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Re: Dual xcountry 2 hour requirement, how far ?

Postby MrMorden » Tue Mar 07, 2017 7:51 am

For Private you have a requirement for two cross country flights:

(i) One cross-country flight of over 100 nautical miles total distance;

(ii) One solo cross country flight of 150 nautical miles total distance, with full-stop landings at three points, and one segment of the flight consisting of a straight-line distance of more than 50 nautical miles between the takeoff and landing locations
Andy Walker
Athens, GA
Sport Pilot ASEL, LSRI
2007 Flight Design CTSW E-LSA

Kiddbats
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Re: Dual xcountry 2 hour requirement, how far ?

Postby Kiddbats » Tue Mar 07, 2017 1:54 pm

For sport pilot
1. Includes a point of landing at least a straight line distance of more than 25 nautical miles from the original point of departure

3Dreaming
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Re: Dual xcountry 2 hour requirement, how far ?

Postby 3Dreaming » Tue Mar 07, 2017 7:56 pm

The 50nm requirement for cross country come from the CFR 61.1 definition. It applies only to private, commercial, instrument, and recreation pilots seeking cross country privileges. So the answer to the question is, no there is no mileage requirement for the 2 hours cross country instruction needed for sport pilot. You do however need to make a landing at another airport for it to be considered cross country.

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MrMorden
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Re: Dual xcountry 2 hour requirement, how far ?

Postby MrMorden » Tue Mar 07, 2017 8:52 pm

Here's AOPA's take on the Sport Pilot requirement, based on their interpretation of the FARs:

One solo cross-country flight of at least 75 nautical miles total distance with a full-stop landing at a minimum of two points and one segment of the flight consisting of a straight-line distance of at least 25 nautical miles between takeoff and landing locations.
Andy Walker
Athens, GA
Sport Pilot ASEL, LSRI
2007 Flight Design CTSW E-LSA

3Dreaming
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Re: Dual xcountry 2 hour requirement, how far ?

Postby 3Dreaming » Tue Mar 07, 2017 9:33 pm

MrMorden wrote:Here's AOPA's take on the Sport Pilot requirement, based on their interpretation of the FARs:

One solo cross-country flight of at least 75 nautical miles total distance with a full-stop landing at a minimum of two points and one segment of the flight consisting of a straight-line distance of at least 25 nautical miles between takeoff and landing locations.


The original question is about cross country flight training, not solo cross country.

As for AOPA's take, that is straight from the regulations. It is often misinterpreted to mean a 3 leg cross country like is required for private pilot. The requirement is for a landing at 2 points, one of them can be back at you home airport. If you use the minimum 25 mile distance you will have to do 3 legs to meet the requirement, but if you extend it to 35+ miles you can make it a simple out and back cross country.

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Re: Dual xcountry 2 hour requirement, how far ?

Postby Merlinspop » Wed Mar 08, 2017 8:20 am

3Dreaming wrote:
MrMorden wrote:Here's AOPA's take on the Sport Pilot requirement, based on their interpretation of the FARs:

One solo cross-country flight of at least 75 nautical miles total distance with a full-stop landing at a minimum of two points and one segment of the flight consisting of a straight-line distance of at least 25 nautical miles between takeoff and landing locations.


The original question is about cross country flight training, not solo cross country.

As for AOPA's take, that is straight from the regulations. It is often misinterpreted to mean a 3 leg cross country like is required for private pilot. The requirement is for a landing at 2 points, one of them can be back at you home airport. If you use the minimum 25 mile distance you will have to do 3 legs to meet the requirement, but if you extend it to 35+ miles you can make it a simple out and back cross country.

If I were a student pilot working on my Sport Pilot certificate, I would get my instructor to sign me off to do a cross country that conforms to the PPL requirement, just to keep the option open to use it in case I decide to upgrade in the future.
- Bruce

pjdavis
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Re: Dual xcountry 2 hour requirement, how far ?

Postby pjdavis » Wed Mar 08, 2017 9:14 am

I was scheduled to do my solo x country 2 weeks ago. The airport was fogged in so it would work out as the plane was scheduled 2.5 hours later. 4 days later I attempted to do it - but hit a unexpected front with turbulence. I did not complete it. However to the topic I am under the impression the solo x country is 100 nautical miles and 3 landings - at least that is what I am going to do. Oops just realized this post is Dual x country. Mine was 125 miles 3 landings.

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Re: Dual xcountry 2 hour requirement, how far ?

Postby 3Dreaming » Wed Mar 08, 2017 10:40 am

pjdavis wrote:I was scheduled to do my solo x country 2 weeks ago. The airport was fogged in so it would work out as the plane was scheduled 2.5 hours later. 4 days later I attempted to do it - but hit a unexpected front with turbulence. I did not complete it. However to the topic I am under the impression the solo x country is 100 nautical miles and 3 landings - at least that is what I am going to do. Oops just realized this post is Dual x country. Mine was 125 miles 3 landings.


This is what the regulations require,

(iii) One solo cross-country flight of at least 75 nautical miles total distance, with a full-stop landing at a minimum of two points and one segment of the flight consisting of a straight-line distance of at least 25 nautical miles between the takeoff and landing locations

What you are doing more than excedes the minimum requirements. That in itself is not a bad thing. When you are flying a faster airplane like you are the longer cross country is not a big deal. When these regulations were written they envisioned people doing sport pilot in heavy ultralights. A long cross country like you have planned would be an all day ordeal in one of those.

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Re: Dual xcountry 2 hour requirement, how far ?

Postby 3Dreaming » Wed Mar 08, 2017 10:56 am

Merlinspop wrote: If I were a student pilot working on my Sport Pilot certificate, I would get my instructor to sign me off to do a cross country that conforms to the PPL requirement, just to keep the option open to use it in case I decide to upgrade in the future.


That is not a bad idea, but it could bring up some other regulatory issues. I know there are some that will disagree, but if you as a student ask to have the cross country meet PP requirements could be construed as intent tp get your private pilot. If you choose to get your private instead of sport then that intent would require that you have a medical certificate for that solo cross country.
If you are a student pilot seeking private pilot privileges you must hold a medical to exercise the student pilot privileges even if flying a light sport aircraft.

As a sport pilot you can complete all of the required private pilot cross country requirements without having an instructors endorsement.

pjdavis
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Re: Dual xcountry 2 hour requirement, how far ?

Postby pjdavis » Wed Mar 08, 2017 12:59 pm

I though for sure I read 100 nm. I think another issue of why we may have planned this for a longer run is the proximity of airports in our area and/or airports that might have less traffic, etc. I feel if I am comfortable during the flight - a 25 nm leg versus a 47 nm leg at 110 kts (85 - 120 ground speed is only another 20 minutes. The long leg of this trip will be 47 nm. I have done that one before. I have recently received my class 3 med. I plan on pursuing my PPL in the future. So I don't know if that would help. Also since I hit a wall in my training - don't like the bumps and caused me to abort my 1st attempt of solo x country. I realize that getting my sp license is only the beginning. A lot more learning and experience required to feel secure and competent. I really question the EAA 1 - 2 week SP program. I have been at it since this summer so this is the 3rd season of the year flying and the air is certainly take a big change. in 1 - 2 weeks in one location what happens when you experience all 4 seasons....

3Dreaming
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Re: Dual xcountry 2 hour requirement, how far ?

Postby 3Dreaming » Wed Mar 08, 2017 2:13 pm

pjdavis wrote:I though for sure I read 100 nm. I think another issue of why we may have planned this for a longer run is the proximity of airports in our area and/or airports that might have less traffic, etc. I feel if I am comfortable during the flight - a 25 nm leg versus a 47 nm leg at 110 kts (85 - 120 ground speed is only another 20 minutes. The long leg of this trip will be 47 nm. I have done that one before. I have recently received my class 3 med. I plan on pursuing my PPL in the future. So I don't know if that would help. Also since I hit a wall in my training - don't like the bumps and caused me to abort my 1st attempt of solo x country. I realize that getting my sp license is only the beginning. A lot more learning and experience required to feel secure and competent. I really question the EAA 1 - 2 week SP program. I have been at it since this summer so this is the 3rd season of the year flying and the air is certainly take a big change. in 1 - 2 weeks in one location what happens when you experience all 4 seasons....


For the cross country time to count towards the private pilot certificate you would need to make a landing at an airport that is at least 50 nm from your original point of departure.

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Re: Dual xcountry 2 hour requirement, how far ?

Postby pjdavis » Wed Mar 08, 2017 5:04 pm

[quote][/quote]

Original departure point as in my airport of origin or or at some point from leg to leg?

3Dreaming
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Re: Dual xcountry 2 hour requirement, how far ?

Postby 3Dreaming » Wed Mar 08, 2017 6:19 pm

pjdavis wrote:


Original departure point as in my airport of origin or or at some point from leg to leg?


Here is the line from the CFR 61.1 definition,
(B) That includes a point of landing that was at least a straight-line distance of more than 50 nautical miles from the original point of departure; and
The original point of departure would be the airport you initially depart from.

What that means If you depart from A, and then fly to B and C. Either B or C needs to be more than 50nm from A. If the distance between B and C is more than 50nm mile, but both are less than 50nm from A then it doesn't count. "A" was you original point of departure.

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Re: Dual xcountry 2 hour requirement, how far ?

Postby pjdavis » Wed Mar 08, 2017 7:24 pm

Thanks - 3D!


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