Sport Pilot CFI

Paul Hamilton is one of the first persons to become a DPE (Designated Pilot Examiner) for sport pilots. As a full-time author and sport pilot expert, he writes books and produces DVD's for Aviation Supplies and Academics (ASA). Now Paul has graciously agreed to answer your questions here. Thanks Paul! For more information about Paul, please visit www.Paul-Hamilton.com and www.Sport-Pilot-Training.com.

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drseti
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Re: Sport Pilot CFI

Postby drseti » Wed Sep 11, 2013 3:39 pm

dstclair wrote:Hi Paul -- might just attend tonight.


Happy to have you aboard, Dave.

I registered but how does one get Wings credit?


If you registered using the same email address you use for FAASafety.gov, the Wings credit will be automatic.
The opinions posted are those of one CFI, and do not necessarily represent the FAA or its lawyers.
Prof H Paul Shuch
PhD CFII DPE LSRM-A/GL/WS/PPC iRMT
AvSport LLC, KLHV
fly@AvSport.org
AvSport.org
facebook.com/SportFlying
SportPilotExaminer.US

VL Roberts
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Re: Sport Pilot CFI

Postby VL Roberts » Wed Sep 11, 2013 3:54 pm

dstclair wrote:
You can calculate the additional HOBBS time, but the way I look at, they want to fly regardless if an instructor is in the other seat or not. IOW, they are going to spend that money anyway.

This is my view as well. I enjoy all types of flying and having company (even a paid CFI) makes it even better. We lose sight that the probably goal of each student pilot is to just fly with quite a bit being around the patch. If you use a SubPart K instructor, you may 'waste' $500 for the extra CFI time when working towards your PP but you'll still be flying (and could even log PIC time if you're in an LSA).

Let's assume we have two student pilots that fly the 3 hours/week, each earn an SP then PP. One goes with a SubPart K, the other H. The 'H' student gets their PP in 48 total hours in 16 weeks and continues to fly happily on their own for another 4 weeks (gaining 12 more hours). S/he now has 60 hours logged in 20 weeks. The K student is just as good but lacks countable time and now has to log 12 more CFI hours. Using the same instruction cycle, they complete PP in 4 weeks. They now have 60 hrs over 20 weeks. Of course, they received 12 more hours of instruction but, maybe, they are now a better pilot at 60 hrs than the 'H' student. Maybe not, but both routes produce the same amount of flying.


That is pretty much my point. I don't even bother to compare the cost of Sport vs Private with prospective students anymore. I just want to know what they want out of flying. In the beginning of training many people seem to have a desire to achieve their goal and spending as little as possible. The smart ones drop the money part out of the equation after a couple of lessons.

VL Roberts
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Re: Sport Pilot CFI

Postby VL Roberts » Wed Sep 11, 2013 4:50 pm

Sorry Paul, but I think you are wrong about the "disservice " of using a Sport CFI. Any "savings" is just an illusion . The check book certainly isn't fooled.

It really pains me to see people enthusiastic and promoting Sport, while at the same time shooting themselves in the foot by advising people to avoid Sport CFI's like the plague.

The more Sport CFI's out there, the more sales people for the industry. The Subpart H instructors , for the most part, have a negative impact on the Sport rating and LSA .

FlyingForFun
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Re: Sport Pilot CFI

Postby FlyingForFun » Wed Sep 11, 2013 5:27 pm

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VL Roberts
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Re: Sport Pilot CFI

Postby VL Roberts » Wed Sep 11, 2013 5:49 pm

FlyingForFun wrote:Here's my take, for what it's worth. The FAA ought to test the applicant against the standards and not worry about who did the training. That said...

I am no longer active, but I would find out the students intentions. If he is relatively young and healthy, why not train for a Private Pilot license with the goal of going on to get an Instrument rating and being able to take his wife and family on vacation in their C-182, etc. PERSONALLY, I don't think a Sport Pilot license if what this person should be going for.

Now, if a person fully understands the limitations of Sport Pilot and LSA's and is still sure that's what he wants, then why not train with a Sport Pilot Instructor? If he later decides to "upgrade" to Private Pilot, that's his decision. Maybe he did not have the vision to see that possibility down the road. So what if it takes a few extra hours?

Also, for us "old-timers" who no longer want the risk of an FAA flight physical, why not train with a Sport Pilot Instructor?


Good points. I have found that people want to learn to fly for a variety of reasons. They feel their life has become boring and routine and want a change, they want a challenge, or they may just want to accomplish something.

What I have seen though, is people say that want Sport first then PPL later. When told the difference between an H and a K instructor and what it means for future ratings, some still pick the K instructor.

When the consumer makes an informed choice without being led to that choice, I see no disservice.

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drseti
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Re: Sport Pilot CFI

Postby drseti » Wed Sep 11, 2013 6:08 pm

VL Roberts wrote:It really pains me to see people enthusiastic and promoting Sport, while at the same time shooting themselves in the foot by advising people to avoid Sport CFI's like the plague.


Actually, we're in complete agreement here. I certainly don't tell anyone to avoid Sport CFIs. I'm just not in a position to hire them for my small flight school. That's purely a business decision, based upon my intention to use SP as a stepping stone for PP candidates. Surely, the older pilot who never intends to get a medical certificate can benefit from instruction with a Subpart K CFI, and at no time have I discouraged that. (There are other, larger flight schools that have a stable of CFIs, some of them SP only, and that's fine.) And, though only 25% of my SP graduates have gone on for PP (so far), those who have done so completed at a higher skill level, and in fewer total hours, than the PP candidates I trained for the past 30 years. So, the stepping-stone approach seems to work -- at least, for some.

The thrust of the EAA/AOPA/NAFI proposal is that it is the PTS that governs instruction, and if the standards are met, it doesn't make a bit of difference who provided the instructions. Conversely, if the student can't meet the PTS requirements, it doesn't matter if he or she trained under Chuck Yeager.
The opinions posted are those of one CFI, and do not necessarily represent the FAA or its lawyers.
Prof H Paul Shuch
PhD CFII DPE LSRM-A/GL/WS/PPC iRMT
AvSport LLC, KLHV
fly@AvSport.org
AvSport.org
facebook.com/SportFlying
SportPilotExaminer.US

FlyingForFun
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Re: Sport Pilot CFI

Postby FlyingForFun » Wed Sep 11, 2013 6:27 pm

Delete
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VL Roberts
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Re: Sport Pilot CFI

Postby VL Roberts » Wed Sep 11, 2013 6:35 pm

drseti wrote:
VL Roberts wrote:It really pains me to see people enthusiastic and promoting Sport, while at the same time shooting themselves in the foot by advising people to avoid Sport CFI's like the plague.


Actually, we're in complete agreement here. I certainly don't tell anyone to avoid Sport CFIs. I'm just not in a position to hire them for my small flight school. That's purely a business decision, based upon my intention to use SP as a stepping stone for PP candidates. Surely, the older pilot who never intends to get a medical certificate can benefit from instruction with a Subpart K CFI, and at no time have I discouraged that. (There are other, larger flight schools that have a stable of CFIs, some of them SP only, and that's fine.) And, though only 25% of my SP graduates have gone on for PP (so far), those who have done so completed at a higher skill level, and in fewer total hours, than the PP candidates I trained for the past 30 years. So, the stepping-stone approach seems to work -- at least, for some.

The thrust of the EAA/AOPA/NAFI proposal is that it is the PTS that governs instruction, and if the standards are met, it doesn't make a bit of difference who provided the instructions. Conversely, if the student can't meet the PTS requirements, it doesn't matter if he or she trained under Chuck Yeager.


Your business , your decision , and I'm certainly not going to tell you how to run it, although I don't understand the logic of it .

What irks me, is that I'm constantly seeing the refrain " make sure you get a regular CFI". I just thought I should at least get another view point out there for people to mull over.

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drseti
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Re: Sport Pilot CFI

Postby drseti » Wed Sep 11, 2013 6:46 pm

VL Roberts wrote:thought I should at least get another view point out there for people to mull over.


And I'm glad you did! :)
The opinions posted are those of one CFI, and do not necessarily represent the FAA or its lawyers.
Prof H Paul Shuch
PhD CFII DPE LSRM-A/GL/WS/PPC iRMT
AvSport LLC, KLHV
fly@AvSport.org
AvSport.org
facebook.com/SportFlying
SportPilotExaminer.US

CTLSi
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Re: Sport Pilot CFI

Postby CTLSi » Wed Sep 11, 2013 7:24 pm

......
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FlyingForFun
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Re: Sport Pilot CFI

Postby FlyingForFun » Wed Sep 11, 2013 8:06 pm

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Re: Sport Pilot CFI

Postby FlyingForFun » Wed Sep 11, 2013 8:08 pm

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Re: Sport Pilot CFI

Postby drseti » Wed Sep 11, 2013 8:36 pm

FlyingForFun wrote:Instructors charge whatever they want to charge.


Or, if they are employees, whatever their flight school mandates they will charge.
The opinions posted are those of one CFI, and do not necessarily represent the FAA or its lawyers.
Prof H Paul Shuch
PhD CFII DPE LSRM-A/GL/WS/PPC iRMT
AvSport LLC, KLHV
fly@AvSport.org
AvSport.org
facebook.com/SportFlying
SportPilotExaminer.US

FlyingForFun
Posts: 509
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Re: Sport Pilot CFI

Postby FlyingForFun » Wed Sep 11, 2013 8:58 pm

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Re: Sport Pilot CFI

Postby FlyingForFun » Wed Sep 11, 2013 8:59 pm

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