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Re: Sort Of

Posted: Wed Nov 03, 2010 8:41 am
by comperini
ArionAv8or wrote:Please correct me if I am wrong but The regs may state you can fly with 1 MI Vis and cloud clearance but I did not think that applies to Sport Pilots. I believe we must maintain 3 MI Vis and the standard 500' below, 1000' above and 2000' lat regardless of airspace.


Sport Pilots must have at least 3 miles, but they share the same cloud clearance requirements as everyone else (clear of clouds in class G, 1000/500/2000 everywhere else they can fly)

I shouldn't

Posted: Wed Nov 03, 2010 8:43 am
by bryancobb
I shouldn't have to but I have to look that up.
I think you are right.

Partially right

Posted: Wed Nov 03, 2010 8:51 am
by bryancobb
Sport Pilots must always have 3 MI VIS to fly, but I was right that your wingtip can be right next to a cloud.

Re: Sort Of

Posted: Wed Nov 03, 2010 9:03 am
by ArionAv8or
comperini wrote:
ArionAv8or wrote:Please correct me if I am wrong but The regs may state you can fly with 1 MI Vis and cloud clearance but I did not think that applies to Sport Pilots. I believe we must maintain 3 MI Vis and the standard 500' below, 1000' above and 2000' lat regardless of airspace.


Sport Pilots must have at least 3 miles, but they share the same cloud clearance requirements as everyone else (clear of clouds in class G, 1000/500/2000 everywhere else they can fly)


Clear of clouds in Class G 1200' above the surface or less, 1200' above and greater sticks with the 500/1000/2000.

Posted: Wed Nov 03, 2010 9:03 am
by 3Dreaming
Sport pilot in class"G" is 3 mile clear of clouds. The 3 mile comes from you pilot limitations.

Posted: Wed Nov 03, 2010 9:22 am
by ArionAv8or
3Dreaming wrote:Sport pilot in class"G" is 3 mile clear of clouds. The 3 mile comes from you pilot limitations.


And 1200' above the surface or LESS. 1200' above and GREATER have to maintain 500/1000/2000.

http://ecfr.gpoaccess.gov/cgi/t/text/te ... .10.2.5.34

Posted: Wed Nov 03, 2010 10:22 am
by 3Dreaming
I'm always thinking about where I teach. around here we don't have any class "G" above 1200 AGL.

Posted: Wed Nov 03, 2010 3:56 pm
by Jim Stewart
This has all gotten kind of fuzzy. By my reading of

http://rgl.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_Guida ... ight=sport pilot privileges

Sport pilots must always have at least 3 miles visibility. No "free of clouds" in G below 1200' like private pilots.

Posted: Wed Nov 03, 2010 4:21 pm
by ArionAv8or
Jim Stewart wrote:This has all gotten kind of fuzzy. By my reading of

http://rgl.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_Guida ... ight=sport pilot privileges

Sport pilots must always have at least 3 miles visibility. No "free of clouds" in G below 1200' like private pilots.


I didn't see anything about cloud clearance in your link. I had to go to the cloud clearance portion of the FARs, 91.155 to determine the clearance differences. However, it does not specify there to be a difference between PPL and SP. I know that there is a difference so when it says 1 MI I know it is actually 3 MI for the SP. If someone knows the section that pertains directly to SP and spells it out in the FARs please list the link or FAR number.

Posted: Wed Nov 03, 2010 5:09 pm
by comperini
ArionAv8or wrote:I didn't see anything about cloud clearance in your link. I had to go to the cloud clearance portion of the FARs, 91.155 to determine the clearance differences. However, it does not specify there to be a difference between PPL and SP. I know that there is a difference so when it says 1 MI I know it is actually 3 MI for the SP. If someone knows the section that pertains directly to SP and spells it out in the FARs please list the link or FAR number.


Basically, 14 CFR 61.315 trumps any other regulation (including 91.155). So, even though 91.155 says "one mile", 61.315 (sport pilot privileges) says "3 miles".

There is nothing in 315 that changes the "clear of clouds" requirements, so 91.155 cloud clearance requirements apply to Sport Pilots, too.

This is no different than Part 91 telling you how you can fly at night, if your plane is appropriately equipped, but 61.315 says "no night flying" for Sport Pilots.

Part 91 privileges apply, unless they are trumped by 61.315

Posted: Wed Nov 03, 2010 5:10 pm
by 3Dreaming
Jim, we have to look at all the regulations to get the answer. 91.155 calls out visibilty and cloud clearances. It says 1 mile and clear of clouds, however a SP must have 3 mile visibilty under 61.315. 61.315 does not change the cloud clearances. Tom

Re: Sort Of

Posted: Wed Nov 03, 2010 5:14 pm
by EppyGA
bryancobb wrote:(6) If a VFR pilot asks to "Participate" (ask ATC for service such as Flight Following) this plane is treated as an IFR aircraft.


Having trouble agreeing with this one. If I'm on FF and I have a mid-air the controller is not going to have any complicity. You're still VFR and they try to help you spot traffic.

Posted: Wed Nov 03, 2010 5:52 pm
by Jim Stewart
3Dreaming wrote:Jim, we have to look at all the regulations to get the answer. 91.155 calls out visibilty and cloud clearances. It says 1 mile and clear of clouds, however a SP must have 3 mile visibilty under 61.315. 61.315 does not change the cloud clearances. Tom


Are you saying that your interpretation is that Sport Pilots can fly with 1 mile visiblility and free of clouds when in class G below 1200' feet?

Treated

Posted: Wed Nov 03, 2010 6:02 pm
by bryancobb
When I said "treated as an IFR plane," I mean that as it states in the AIM, "separation will be provided between all IFR and participating VFR aircraft.

In VFR weather EVERY PILOT must become primary in the see-and-avoid collision avoidance role. EVEN IF IFR RATED AND ON AN INSTRUMENT FLIGHT PLAN.

I had a friend (DPE) get killed while giving an instrument Checkride, in a helicopter and ON AN IFR FLIGHT PLAN, at Fulton County (Charlie Brown) in Atlanta (Towered Class D).
It was VFR weather and it was not the controller's job to keep airplanes from hitting each other. Their job during VFR is to sequence aircraft in and out in an orderly fashion. My friend, Rich Hull, had the applicant under the hood on an ILS. Mr. Hull called for the missed approach without fulfilling his see-and-avoid role as the eyes outside, and the applicant did just what was published, and hit an airplane turning final on another runway.

Four people died when both aircraft fell straight down.

NOT EVEN CHUCK YEAGER IN THE SPACE SHUTTLE CAN DELEGATE THAT SEE-AND-AVOID ROLE TO A CONTROLLER IN VFR WEATHER!

No

Posted: Wed Nov 03, 2010 6:06 pm
by bryancobb
Jim Stewart wrote:
3Dreaming wrote:Jim, we have to look at all the regulations to get the answer. 91.155 calls out visibilty and cloud clearances. It says 1 mile and clear of clouds, however a SP must have 3 mile visibilty under 61.315. 61.315 does not change the cloud clearances. Tom


Are you saying that your interpretation is that Sport Pilots can fly with 1 mile visiblility and free of clouds when in class G below 1200' feet?


No... I think I can speak for him. He's saying that Sport Pilots are ALWAYS subject to a 3MI VIS requirement but after that, 91.155 dictates that "clear of clouds" describes how close a Sport Pilot can legally get to "A CLOUD" as long as 3MI VIS is met. (IN CLASS G)