Can ppl training count toward a sport license

Paul Hamilton is one of the first persons to become a DPE (Designated Pilot Examiner) for sport pilots. As a full-time author and sport pilot expert, he writes books and produces DVD's for Aviation Supplies and Academics (ASA). Now Paul has graciously agreed to answer your questions here. Thanks Paul! For more information about Paul, please visit www.Paul-Hamilton.com and www.Sport-Pilot-Training.com.

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jlm5050

Can ppl training count toward a sport license

Postby jlm5050 » Thu Oct 07, 2010 10:18 am

Sorry if this subject has been dicussed before, I am new here. My question is, can I take 10 to 12 hours of training given by a CFI (not sport instructor) in a 4 seater plane, at my local airport, and have these flight hours count toward my sport pilot license? There is not a sport cerf. instructor in my area that I can find. I would have to finish my training in another area.

Jim Stewart
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Postby Jim Stewart » Thu Oct 07, 2010 11:00 am

For logbook time, absolutely. For real-world experience in Light Sport airplanes, it depends. Contrary to the FAA hour requirement, Light Sport aircraft are often more difficult to fly and land than a typical general aviation trainer. You may find that you need more hours to solo and get signed off for your practical test than you think.

ArionAv8or
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Postby ArionAv8or » Thu Oct 07, 2010 11:42 am

Jim Stewart wrote:For logbook time, absolutely. For real-world experience in Light Sport airplanes, it depends. Contrary to the FAA hour requirement, Light Sport aircraft are often more difficult to fly and land than a typical general aviation trainer. You may find that you need more hours to solo and get signed off for your practical test than you think.


I would agree with Jim on all counts, especially the differences between flying and landing a typical 172 as compared to a LSA. With the lighter weight and a 17:1 glide ratio my plane is definitely harder to land than a 172, Arrow, etc... The approach and landing speed is VERY important in my aircraft and if you flare a little early or too much it takes much longer for the aircraft to settle to the runway. My controls are also a lot more sensitive so touch is very important to smooth flight.

jlm5050

Postby jlm5050 » Thu Oct 07, 2010 1:58 pm

Tks very much for the info. If I elect to take local training it would be in a piper warrior. Thats what I took the introductory ride in. I assumed it would take a little extra time by switching aircraft in the middle but not sure how much. I just didn't want to pay for fight time and it not count for my total hours. tks again

ka7eej
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Postby ka7eej » Thu Oct 07, 2010 7:42 pm

JLM,


You only need 15 hours dual for Sports Pilot. I would say get all of those in a Light Sport Airplane..Mainly in the one you are going to rent or buy..IF you are going to go forward and get a PPL sometime after you got your Sports Pilot license, and you just want to get up in the air, there may be some value to getting a few hours in a GA airplane..Otherwise I think you are just wasting your money..

Brian
Owner of N3081X (Cover Girl) A Beautiful Allegro 2000 as seen on the cover and inside of several magazines!!

bryancobb
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Re: Can ppl training count toward a sport license

Postby bryancobb » Fri Oct 08, 2010 11:22 am

jlm5050 wrote:There is not a sport cerf. instructor in my area that I can find. I would have to finish my training in another area.


In this specific instance, If you don't mind spending the money, AND If you can get a Class III Medical Certificate. Just fly the Warrior with that local CFI, get your private, and let your Medical expire... and WAH-LAA!
You are now a Sport Pilot!

Getting a Private Rating at or near 40 Hours logged is entirely doable. I went from zero to 41.5 hours and then took my checkride with confidence.
Getting a Sport License at 20 hours is much harder to do. You have to know and do 85% of what a Private Pilot has to in a lot less time.
Expecting someone have enough aeronautical experience to be safe with 20 hours of logged is a stretch at best. I remember when I only had 20 hours logged and I still needed a lot of experience before being confident at getting up and down without bending the airplane. I got 21.5 more hours before my Private Checkride, and gained A LOT of experience AND confidence.

As a Sport Instructor, I'm seeing students becoming ready for their SPORT checkride in the 30 to 32 hours logged mark. There's really only 8 or 10 hours difference in SPORT VS PRIVATE.

A Warrior is not that much more than a Technam to rent, especially if it's an old Warrior. The only REAL issue may be getting a Medical.

Seems to me that the convenience of an easily-accessible local airplane and CFI, might make the Private Rating be more logical for you.

I realize there are more variables involved. My opinion is specific to this situation.
Bryan Cobb
Sport Pilot CFI
Commercial/Instrument Airplane
Commercial Rotorcraft Helicopter
Cartersville, Ga
bryandcobb@att.net

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dstclair
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Postby dstclair » Fri Oct 08, 2010 7:23 pm

Or train in the warrior for a Recreational Pilot Certificate. It takes 30 hrs which is probably what you'd need for the Sport Pilot anyway. Get the 50 miles restriction removed by doing 3hrs of cross country training to an airport 50nm away (instead of the 2hrs/25nm minimum requirement). Get the logbook endorsed and you can now fly 4 seaters, non-complex, 180hp aircraft in addition to LSAs. Minimum hrs of 31.

Let the medical lapse and you're an SP.
dave

jlm5050
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Postby jlm5050 » Sun Oct 10, 2010 7:51 pm

Tks for information. Had problem logging back in for a few days to respond. FYI, can't pass medical. I will look at other options for sport license in Hoston area, I am there a few days every week. tks again

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Paul Hamilton
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Postby Paul Hamilton » Mon Oct 11, 2010 4:35 pm

It has been really interesting transitioning pilots from Beachcraft/Pipers/Cessna’s to LSA.

There is a wide variety of characteristics for transitioning from a heavy aircraft to a light sport. However, I will provide some general guidance for starting in a non LSA and moving to a LSA I have personally observed.

The 4 basics of flying, straight and level, turns, descents and climbing are most similar for non-LSA and LSA. I would say that maybe 5 hours of training in a “heavy” aircraft is reasonable. However, after you start doing ground reference and approach to landing the LSA is more sensitive and appears to take more skill to fly with precision and land.

Why do I say this? Typically, the transitioning pilot, that I have observed, picks up the basics of flying LSA quickly but falls apart in the approach and landing. I start all my landing preparation with low approaches. Simply flying in the middle of the runway with the wheels 1 foot above the ground maintaining lateral direction right over the runway center line while maintaining this 1 foot altitude and approach airspeed. Working the throttle as well as the flight controls to maintain this position appears difficult for most pilots because they are simply over controlling the LSA and not using the throttle affectively to mediate altitude and airspeed.

It finally made sense when a transitioning pilot summed it up by saying “I was taught to land the aircraft and not fly it like I was going to land. We never practiced this precision of flying with such sensitive controls. My Beachcraft just drives like a truck into the ground”. Now I understand why so many private pilots “pound it in” on landing during their flight review (I say “pound it in” which may be misunderstood - a more diplomatic term would be lack of adequate round out).

Maybe this will help to explain it. LSA are more sensitive (or maybe I am teaching to too high of standards expecting low approach precision before the wheels touch the ground).

So the moral of this story is that if you are NOT planning on going for the private pilot ticket, if it can be avoided, do not spend too much time driving a truck (heavy airplane) rather than a sports car (LSA). They are very different.
Paul is a Sport Pilot CFI/DPE and the expert for ASA who writes the books and produces the DVD's for all pilots flying light sport aircraft.
See www.SportAviationCenter.com www.Sport-Pilot-Training.com and www.BeASportPilot.com to Paul's websites

Jim Stewart
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Postby Jim Stewart » Mon Oct 11, 2010 6:16 pm

Have you considered additional training for engine-out landings? Most of the private pilots I've talked to have only practiced them in the pattern. They seem incredulous that I can consistently make a good landing from 4 miles out and at 3500 feet without bringing the throttle off of idle.

Of course, this depends a lot on the plane. I fly a CTSW and the more I fly it the more I appreciate what it can do.

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Paul Hamilton
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Postby Paul Hamilton » Fri Nov 05, 2010 4:22 pm

Landing without an engine (or engine at idle) is an excelent talent that should be mastered by every pilot in his/her aircraft. This is where you will notice the differences in different airplanes.

Sailplane pilots do it every flight bacause the practice it.
Paul is a Sport Pilot CFI/DPE and the expert for ASA who writes the books and produces the DVD's for all pilots flying light sport aircraft.

See www.SportAviationCenter.com www.Sport-Pilot-Training.com and www.BeASportPilot.com to Paul's websites

ka7eej
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Postby ka7eej » Sat Nov 06, 2010 2:22 pm

The ALLEGRO POH states Do not flare the landing but fly the airplane to the ground much like a fighter landing on an aircraft carrier...

Hows that for instruction??

Brian
Owner of N3081X (Cover Girl) A Beautiful Allegro 2000 as seen on the cover and inside of several magazines!!

GaffSD
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Postby GaffSD » Thu Nov 11, 2010 6:17 pm

I had an experience that might shed some light.

I soloed in Cherokees , was prepping for my cross country and then ran out of money due to ROL (rest of life) issues..

Seven months later, I had a couple bucks and heard about sport pilot.

So... Check out on a sport plane (StingSport, specifically), do a cross country dual and solo, then it's checkride time!

Took about SEVEN dual hours to get the hang of the Sting from Cherokees! Approach and landing issues. Go figure!

Well, the Sting got sold, so I spent a couple hours in the SportCruiser.

Then a guy wrecked it a couple days later!

Ran out of cash (divorce, etc...).

During the time I wasn't training, I'd try to scrape the cash together for an hour of dual to keep from totally losing it. One of the hours was in a Cherokee.

I landed it like it was on RAILS. Man, it was like coming home again! Hadn't flown one in a year, and it was a piece of cake by comparison.

Back in SP training. All I've got left is to get my solo endorsement back, (maybe 2 flights) ANOTHER stage check (already did one!) then the checkride... We'll see how it goes!
Sport Pilot
SportCruiser, Gobash G700, StingSport
www.SanDiegoSportFlyers.com

bryancobb
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YESSSS

Postby bryancobb » Thu Nov 11, 2010 8:36 pm

E-G-G-Z-A-C-K-L-Y!!!!!!
Flying is flying and it all fits together like peas-n-carrots.
Any Subpart H I J K L M N or P CFI can get you trained for your Sport Checkride.
Go get Captain Skyler CFI, and log your first 15 hours in a C-130, do your last 4 or five in a LSA and you're there.
Bryan Cobb

Sport Pilot CFI

Commercial/Instrument Airplane

Commercial Rotorcraft Helicopter

Cartersville, Ga

bryandcobb@att.net

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Paul Hamilton
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Postby Paul Hamilton » Sun Nov 14, 2010 5:27 pm

GaffSD wrote:I had an experience that might shed some light.

.......

During the time I wasn't training, I'd try to scrape the cash together for an hour of dual to keep from totally losing it. One of the hours was in a Cherokee.

I landed it like it was on RAILS. Man, it was like coming home again! Hadn't flown one in a year, and it was a piece of cake by comparison.

Back in SP training. All I've got left is to get my solo endorsement back, (maybe 2 flights) ANOTHER stage check (already did one!) then the checkride... We'll see how it goes!


So in your experience the Cherokee is much easier to land than the LSA cause it comes in stable in comparison? The LSA is more sensitive? Harder to keep going straight after the heavier aircraft? Just want to make sure I understand your experiences.... Heavy to LSA
Paul is a Sport Pilot CFI/DPE and the expert for ASA who writes the books and produces the DVD's for all pilots flying light sport aircraft.

See www.SportAviationCenter.com www.Sport-Pilot-Training.com and www.BeASportPilot.com to Paul's websites


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