Private Pilot Limitations When Flying Without a Medical

slsaowner · Post by **slsaowner** » Tue Jul 29, 2008 6:18 pm

An article in the current issue of EAA Sport Pilot magazine says "Sport pilots must always have a minimum of 3 miles of visibility in any airspace (no special VFR) and are not allowed to fly over clouds without visual ground reference". Is this also true for Private Pilots flying as Sport Pilots?

Doss79 · Post by **Doss79** » Wed Jul 30, 2008 8:55 am

I'm no pilot or CFI, but I would say NO. If you're a private pilot, you can operate an LSA aircraft as you would a non-LSA aircraft. Though, that LSA aircraft must have the instruments needed for IFR flying.

I could be wrong!

slsaowner · Post by **slsaowner** » Thu Jul 31, 2008 6:35 am

I was at Airventure yesterday, and the fellow "selling" Skycatchers insisted that private pilots without medicals are limited to VFR conditions - i.e., no Special VFR, etc.

CTflyer · Post by **CTflyer** » Thu Jul 31, 2008 7:35 am

I'll be interested in how this topic develops.

Seems that if a Private Pilot is flying as a Sport Pilot, he/she is subject to all the Sport Pilot restrictions. If you don't stay within the boundaries, you're not legally flying as a Sport Pilot. (right?)

And of course, the sticky wicket is that there was probably some good reason the Private Pilot decided to fly as a Sport Pilot. Would there be some reason a Private Pilot decided to fly as a Sport Pilot other than a medical problem or no longer having a medical cert? And if it's due to a medical problem, then he/she can't legally fly as a Private Pilot - and thus has to fly as a Sport Pilot.

Say - for what it's worth - what the heck are "private pilots without medicals". If a PPL doesn't have a medical, is he/she still legally flying as a PPL? I think the SkyCatcher salesman was selling planes - not giving legal advice. Surprise!

Tom

CharlieTango · Post by **CharlieTango** » Thu Jul 31, 2008 8:56 am

a private pilot without a medical cannot fly special vfr, and cannot fly at night, cannot fly vfr on top and cannot fly above 10,000'MSL.

two advantages are the private pilot can fly in class b and c airspace and can fly faster then 89kts without an endorsement.

the private pilot got the communication training when obtaining his certificate.

CTflyer · Post by **CTflyer** » Thu Jul 31, 2008 9:18 am

"a private pilot without a medical cannot fly special vfr, and cannot fly at night, cannot fly vfr on top and cannot fly above 10,000'MSL. "

Just so I understand this, are you saying a private pilot can fly (legally) without a current medical, as long as he/she doesn't fly svfr, or at night, or vfr on top, or above 10K MSL?

I thought the lack of a current medical made the private pilot completely ineligible to fly.

Thanks.
Tom

CharlieTango · Post by **CharlieTango** » Thu Jul 31, 2008 9:27 am

CTflyer wrote:...I thought the lack of a current medical made the private pilot completely ineligible to fly...

sorry tom,

the higher certificate holder ( private pilot included ) can fly as a light sport pilot if he holds a valid drivers license, uses the drivers license in lieu of a 3rd class medical and self certifies that he is healthy.

the higher certificate holder cannot have been denied a medical in order to be eligible to use his drivers license.

ka7eej · Post by **ka7eej** » Fri Aug 01, 2008 6:42 am

Guys,, continuing on ,,,don't forget that a PPL without a medical and using a drivers license must also fly a Light Sport Airplane and have had a biannual flight review in the last two years.... plus the take offs and landings required to carry a passenger..... In other words a private pilot without a medical is a Sport Pilot with towered airport and +89 knot endorsements!! END OF STORY.

CTflyer · Post by **CTflyer** » Fri Aug 01, 2008 7:05 am

Thanks Ka. I've been thinking that all the time.

Fortunately there are many ppl's flying light sport aircraft and participating in sport pilot discussions, but sometimes the original definition of sport pilot seems to get forgotten.

If you're a ppl *but* flying as a sport pilot, you're a sport pilot - not a ppl flying without a medical. You're flying with all the restrictions (and possible "extensions", like busier airspace) of a newly certificated sport pilot.

Thanks.
Tom

CharlieTango · Post by **CharlieTango** » Fri Aug 01, 2008 10:54 am

CTflyer wrote:Thanks Ka. I've been thinking that all the time.

Fortunately there are many ppl's flying light sport aircraft and participating in sport pilot discussions, but sometimes the original definition of sport pilot seems to get forgotten.

If you're a ppl *but* flying as a sport pilot, you're a sport pilot - not a ppl flying without a medical. You're flying with all the restrictions (and possible "extensions", like busier airspace) of a newly certificated sport pilot.

Thanks.
Tom

tom,

you are basiclly correct, i have a private pilot certificate and i am exercising sport pilot priledges. however i am a private pilot, it says so on my certificate.

ka7eej · Post by **ka7eej** » Fri Aug 01, 2008 2:56 pm

Charlie Tango.
I know that you are splitting hairs.. Your Private Pilot certificate means nothing as far as Pilot In Command goes with out a current medical,, With the exception of flying Light Sport Planes under Sport Pilot Rules... Your certicicate could say ATP... So sure you are a APT,,,or you would be with a current medical.....you can still only be Pilot in Command of a Light Sport Plane flying under Sport Pilot Rules...With a lot more knowledge and experience? you bet...

ka7eej · Post by **ka7eej** » Fri Aug 01, 2008 3:02 pm

Back to the original question... A PPL may fly a Light Sport Airplane to the limations of their license and the limations of the aircraft flown per its manafactuer...Please keep in mind that there are two different things here.... A license and a class of airplane.....A Sport Pilot may only fly Light Sport Aircraft..

agaviator · Post by **agaviator** » Fri Aug 01, 2008 3:51 pm

slsaowner wrote:An article in the current issue of EAA Sport Pilot magazine says "Sport pilots must always have a minimum of 3 miles of visibility in any airspace (no special VFR) and are not allowed to fly over clouds without visual ground reference". Is this also true for Private Pilots flying as Sport Pilots?

Even if a person holds an ATP, if he is flying without a FAA Medical,
they must adheare to Sport priveleges. This requires a current state
drivers' license. ie A CPL or ATP with a 3rd class medical is limited to
PPL priveleges.

CTflyer · Post by **CTflyer** » Fri Aug 01, 2008 5:05 pm

Here's the FAA reg concerning Sport Pilot limitations:

61.315
(c) You may not act as pilot in command of a light-sport aircraft:
(1) That is carrying a passenger or property for compensation
or hire.
(2) For compensation or hire.
(3) In furtherance of a business.
(4) While carrying more than one passenger.
(5) At night.
(6) In Class A airspace.
(7) In Class B, C, and D airspace, at an airport located in Class
B, C, or D airspace, and to, from, through, or at an airport having an
operational control tower unless you have met the requirements specified
in §61.325.
(8 ) Outside the United States, unless you have prior
authorization from the country in which you seek to operate. Your sport
pilot certificate carries the limit “Holder does not meet ICAO
requirements.”
(9) To demonstrate the aircraft in flight to a prospective buyer if
you are an aircraft salesperson.
(10) In a passenger-carrying airlift sponsored by a charitable
organization.
(11) At an altitude of more than 10,000 feet MSL.
(12) When the flight or surface visibility is less than 3 statute
miles.
(13) Without visual reference to the surface.
(14) If the aircraft has a VH that exceeds 87 knots CAS, unless
you have met the requirements of §61.327.
(15) Contrary to any operating limitation placed on the
airworthiness certificate of the aircraft being flown.
(16) Contrary to any limit or endorsement on your pilot
certificate, airman medical certificate, or any other limit or endorsement
from an authorized instructor.
(17) Contrary to any restriction or limitation on your U.S.
driver’s license or any restriction or limitation imposed by judicial or
administrative order when using your driver’s license to satisfy a
requirement of this part.
(18 ) While towing any object.
(19) As a pilot flight crewmember on any aircraft for which more
than one pilot is required by the type certificate of the aircraft or the
regulations under which the flight is conducted.

I'm pretty sure the max MSL hasn't been amended (yet) to read 10000 MSL *or* 2000 AGL. Interesting that recreational pilots have the 2000 AGL already - and ultralight fliers have all the air up to 18000!

Here's a link to the FAA's proposed Sport Pilot changes; comments are being accepted until August 13, 2008. It usually takes another 12-18 months after the last comment date to issue the final ruling.

http://www.eaa.org/news/2008/2008-04-24 ... #revisions

Tom

Skyview Aviation · Post by **Skyview Aviation** » Sat Aug 09, 2008 9:50 am

I think the original question was:

"Sport pilots must always have a minimum of 3 miles of visibility in any airspace (no special VFR) and are not allowed to fly over clouds without visual ground reference". Is this also true for Private Pilots flying as Sport Pilots?

The answer is YES. A Private Pilot without a medical is a Sport Pilot. Period. You must fly under Sport Pilot rules. No Ifs/And/Buts about it. A Private Pilot with a medical, and meeting all other requirements to fly as a Private Pilot may fly a Light Sport Airplane just like any other Cessna/Piper/Mooney etc that he/she is rated for. This means that as a Private Pilot, you can fly your LSA at 14,000 feet if you want. You can fly it as fast as it will go, provided you are within the operating limitations set forth by the manufacturer. You can even fly it IFR, if it is so equipped and you are so rated/current, etc.

As others have mentioned in this post and numerous others, the Sport Pilot is one set of regs. The Light Sport Airplane is a completely set of regs. Many people try to combine them into one mindset and that's when it starts to get confusing.

Sport Pilot Talk