ADS-B Reflections - (a confession and a suggestion)

The Federal Aviation Regulations (also know as FAR's). This is the Bible of aviation, the rules under which we operate. This is where you'll find everything you want to know about pilots and airplanes in the United States. Ask questions. Get answers.

Moderator: drseti

User avatar
FastEddieB
Posts: 2405
Joined: Wed Jan 07, 2009 9:33 pm
Location: Mineral Bluff, GA

ADS-B Reflections - (a confession and a suggestion)

Postby FastEddieB » Tue Aug 12, 2014 11:34 am

There seems to be a tremendous interest in ADS-B “solutions”, both here and on other Light Sport sites. Page after page after page of what's available now and speculation on what the situation will be 5+ years hence.

First, my confession:

I do not have a clear understanding of what ADS-B is. Even for sure what it stands for. I mean, I’ve seen the articles in AOPA and EAA magazines, complete with diagrams and charts. I start reading them but for some reason my eyes glaze over part way through, and I find myself just not caring. At all. Same with the myriad threads here and on a variety of sites I frequent.

Why? I’m not a Luddite nor a technophobe, and don’t mind some level of gadgetry. And to the extent ADS-B may enhance safety, that can only be a good thing. But I can think of a few reasons for my disinterest:

1) I just turned 65. In 2020, God willing, I’ll be 70+. It is by no means certain I will still be flying (or even alive) then - I hope so, but wasting time worrying about something that far out seems silly.

2) If I am still flying in 2020, I don’t know what I’ll be flying, so investing in current technology for my Sky Arrow also seems premature.

3) Speaking of current technology, who knows what will be available in 5+ years? Again making it premature to make decisions now for an uncertain future.

4) And that uncertain future includes the possibility of the mandate pushed back or modified for us GA guys.

5) And finally, I bristle at each new equipment requirement - the initial cost, the installation process, and maintenance and troubleshooting and periodic certification, if required, going forward. Each additional box takes me one step farther away from the pure joy of flying I sought out in the 1970’s.

So, as far as ADS-B goes, my feelings are similar to some Jimmy Buffet lyrics:

“Is it ignorance or apathy…
Hell, I don't know and I don't care.”



Second, my suggestion:

Page after page after page of posts are being generated on the topic of ADS-B. Great! Whatever floats your boat and if its foremost in your mind, by all means keep at it for the next 5+ years. There’s clearly an interest here I personally don’t get, but that’s just me!

But without meaning to be presumptuous, maybe there are other things one could spend one’s time on instead? Read up on Mountain Flying? Or Aviation Weather? Or review the POH or maintenance manual for one’s aircraft? Or begin preparation for another license or rating?

Or not, as I said, just a suggestion.

Carry on - I just had to get that off my chest.

Now, off to the airport to figure out why my Sky Arrow won't start!
Fast Eddie B.
Sky Arrow 600 E-LSA • N467SA
CFI, CFII, CFIME
FastEddieB@mac.com

MovingOn
Posts: 631
Joined: Fri Dec 20, 2013 5:34 pm

Re: ADS-B Reflections - (a confession and a suggestion)

Postby MovingOn » Tue Aug 12, 2014 11:43 am

.......
Last edited by MovingOn on Mon Aug 25, 2014 3:28 pm, edited 2 times in total.

Wm.Ince
Posts: 691
Joined: Sun Nov 17, 2013 3:27 pm
Location: Clearwater, FL

Re: ADS-B Reflections - (a confession and a suggestion)

Postby Wm.Ince » Tue Aug 12, 2014 11:47 am

FastEddieB wrote:[with regards to] . . . "First, my confession:" . . .
That makes two of us Eddy.
Spot on for me and you laid it all out so elegantly.
You are a good writer, Sir. . . . :)

User avatar
MrMorden
Posts: 1902
Joined: Fri Aug 17, 2012 7:28 am
Location: Athens, GA

Re: ADS-B Reflections - (a confession and a suggestion)

Postby MrMorden » Tue Aug 12, 2014 12:13 pm

I think for people my age (47), it's too early to buy but too late to ignore ADS-B. :lol:

It's something nice to be thinking about. Like MovingOn, I'm a little bit of a gadget head and I like "toys." Plus, the traffic and weather capabilities of ADS-B have piqued my interest, though not enough to buy anything yet. I did drop my XM weather subscription in anticipation of getting some kind of subscription-free ADS-B in box, probably a GDL-39.

But isn't this why aviation forums exist, to discuss issues related to aviation? Especially those issues that have created the FUD (fear, uncertainty, and doubt) that ADS-B had generated. I think part of the reasons it is overly discussed is that very few people fully understand the system or what it requires of them. Which is a major public relations failure for the FAA, in my opinion.
Andy Walker
Athens, GA
Sport Pilot ASEL, LSRI
2007 Flight Design CTSW E-LSA

User avatar
drseti
Posts: 5680
Joined: Sat Nov 28, 2009 6:42 pm
Location: Lock Haven PA
Contact:

Re: ADS-B Reflections - (a confession and a suggestion)

Postby drseti » Tue Aug 12, 2014 1:24 pm

FastEddieB wrote:I do not have a clear understanding of what ADS-B is. Even for sure what it stands for.


Automatic Direct Surveillance - Broadcast.

And now, you don't know a helluva lot more than you did before. :(
The opinions posted are those of one CFI, and do not necessarily represent the FAA or its lawyers.
Prof H Paul Shuch
PhD CFII DPE LSRM-A/GL/WS/PPC iRMT
AvSport LLC, KLHV
fly@AvSport.org
AvSport.org
facebook.com/SportFlying
SportPilotExaminer.US

CTLSi
Posts: 783
Joined: Thu Jun 27, 2013 7:38 pm

Re: ADS-B Reflections - (a confession and a suggestion)

Postby CTLSi » Tue Aug 12, 2014 1:30 pm

......
Last edited by CTLSi on Sun Nov 30, 2014 11:51 am, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
MrMorden
Posts: 1902
Joined: Fri Aug 17, 2012 7:28 am
Location: Athens, GA

Re: ADS-B Reflections - (a confession and a suggestion)

Postby MrMorden » Tue Aug 12, 2014 1:39 pm

CTLSi wrote:Now I use it every time I go up. Aside from the weather data, the traffic 'targets' that pop up are always welcome. Especially enroute between airfields. The bigger planes have it onboard, like Pilatus, Lear, Gulfstreams, Boeings, and once in a while a Baron or a Mooney. And those planes show up on my screen and when close, the audible 'traffic' rings out. Then it's time to look closer and decide if the traffic is a 'factor.'


How often do you get "useful" traffic alerts, meaning traffic that is actually a potential factor, instead of jets flying 15,000 feet above you? I'm curious.

Oh right, you have an ADS-B out system...you probably see everything with a transponder.
Andy Walker
Athens, GA
Sport Pilot ASEL, LSRI
2007 Flight Design CTSW E-LSA

MovingOn
Posts: 631
Joined: Fri Dec 20, 2013 5:34 pm

Re: ADS-B Reflections - (a confession and a suggestion)

Postby MovingOn » Tue Aug 12, 2014 1:43 pm

.......
Last edited by MovingOn on Mon Aug 25, 2014 3:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
FastEddieB
Posts: 2405
Joined: Wed Jan 07, 2009 9:33 pm
Location: Mineral Bluff, GA

Re: ADS-B Reflections - (a confession and a suggestion)

Postby FastEddieB » Tue Aug 12, 2014 1:57 pm

drseti wrote:
FastEddieB wrote:I do not have a clear understanding of what ADS-B is. Even for sure what it stands for.


Automatic Direct...


Sorry.

My eyes glazed over before the third word! :wink:
Fast Eddie B.
Sky Arrow 600 E-LSA • N467SA
CFI, CFII, CFIME
FastEddieB@mac.com

User avatar
FastEddieB
Posts: 2405
Joined: Wed Jan 07, 2009 9:33 pm
Location: Mineral Bluff, GA

Re: ADS-B Reflections - (a confession and a suggestion)

Postby FastEddieB » Tue Aug 12, 2014 2:05 pm

CTLSi wrote:
Because of this experience I know these tools are going to be a surprising must-have once more and more planes have it and more and more pilots see it less as just another government burden, but as something they start to use each time they fly.


We're coming from very different perspectives.

My Cirrus had Skywatch, so I know what it's like to have traffic - I did for about 4 years and 400+ hours (which included a $2,700 repair :( ) and I'd file it in the "nice to have" category.

I do not miss it in my Sky Arrow. At all. I do not want another box or another screen to have to pay attention to - I like my attention elsewhere.

Bear in mind I flew for about 32 years and over 6,000 hours using only my Mk 1 eyeballs and did not hit anyone nor have them hit me. And much of this was in the 1970's and 1980's in S FL where there was much, much more traffic than there is now.

Like I said, different perspectives.
Fast Eddie B.
Sky Arrow 600 E-LSA • N467SA
CFI, CFII, CFIME
FastEddieB@mac.com

Jim Stewart
Posts: 480
Joined: Thu Oct 12, 2006 6:49 pm

Re: ADS-B Reflections - (a confession and a suggestion)

Postby Jim Stewart » Tue Aug 12, 2014 2:35 pm

I was having the same thoughts as Eddie yesterday. I'll be 68 in 2020. I hope I'm still flying but who knows. I think there will be a simple UAT solution for under $2000 by then. I also think that the FAA will drop the requirement for a mode C transponder on UAT-equiped aircraft by then. So I'm probably gonna wait and see.

Now if they had an ADS-B solution that would have shown me that flock of turkey vultures I passed Sunday, I'd be more interested.
PP-ASEL, Flight Design CTSW owner.

User avatar
FastEddieB
Posts: 2405
Joined: Wed Jan 07, 2009 9:33 pm
Location: Mineral Bluff, GA

Re: ADS-B Reflections - (a confession and a suggestion)

Postby FastEddieB » Tue Aug 12, 2014 2:37 pm

Jim Stewart wrote:Now if they had an ADS-B solution that would have shown me that flock of turkey vultures I passed Sunday, I'd be more interested.


I'm pretty sure turkey vultures are to be included in the proposed 2030 mandate.

Maybe one of us should start a thread... :twisted:
Fast Eddie B.
Sky Arrow 600 E-LSA • N467SA
CFI, CFII, CFIME
FastEddieB@mac.com

User avatar
MrMorden
Posts: 1902
Joined: Fri Aug 17, 2012 7:28 am
Location: Athens, GA

Re: ADS-B Reflections - (a confession and a suggestion)

Postby MrMorden » Tue Aug 12, 2014 2:48 pm

FastEddieB wrote:
CTLSi wrote:
Because of this experience I know these tools are going to be a surprising must-have once more and more planes have it and more and more pilots see it less as just another government burden, but as something they start to use each time they fly.


We're coming from very different perspectives.

My Cirrus had Skywatch, so I know what it's like to have traffic - I did for about 4 years and 400+ hours (which included a $2,700 repair :( ) and I'd file it in the "nice to have" category.

I do not miss it in my Sky Arrow. At all. I do not want another box or another screen to have to pay attention to - I like my attention elsewhere.

Bear in mind I flew for about 32 years and over 6,000 hours using only my Mk 1 eyeballs and did not hit anyone nor have them hit me. And much of this was in the 1970's and 1980's in S FL where there was much, much more traffic than there is now.

Like I said, different perspectives.


I tend to agree that traffic is "nice to have" and not "need to have"... But on the other side of the coin, arguing that you successfully did something for many years is not really a great argument that it's adequate. Many guys get away with scud running on a regular basis, until they don't. Not having awareness of traffic your eyeball can't see (like behind you or climbing up into you from beneath) is not a problem, until it's not.

I don't feel naked without a traffic system, but I sure can see the advantages.
Andy Walker
Athens, GA
Sport Pilot ASEL, LSRI
2007 Flight Design CTSW E-LSA

User avatar
MrMorden
Posts: 1902
Joined: Fri Aug 17, 2012 7:28 am
Location: Athens, GA

Re: ADS-B Reflections - (a confession and a suggestion)

Postby MrMorden » Tue Aug 12, 2014 2:50 pm

FastEddieB wrote:
Jim Stewart wrote:Now if they had an ADS-B solution that would have shown me that flock of turkey vultures I passed Sunday, I'd be more interested.


I'm pretty sure turkey vultures are to be included in the proposed 2030 mandate.

Maybe one of us should start a thread... :twisted:


Putting little transponders up their butts is going to be a tough task...I'm sure the FAA will mandate pilots do that work for vultures in our area. :x
Andy Walker
Athens, GA
Sport Pilot ASEL, LSRI
2007 Flight Design CTSW E-LSA

MovingOn
Posts: 631
Joined: Fri Dec 20, 2013 5:34 pm

Re: ADS-B Reflections - (a confession and a suggestion)

Postby MovingOn » Tue Aug 12, 2014 2:52 pm

.......
Last edited by MovingOn on Mon Aug 25, 2014 3:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.


Return to “FARs”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest