ADS-B out for S-LSA

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dstclair
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ADS-B out for S-LSA

Postby dstclair » Sun Aug 10, 2014 4:48 pm

There seems to be quite a lot of confusion over how to equip an S-LSA for ADS-B Out so I thought I'd take a few minutes and outline what the regulations state (or at least my interpretation of them). For background on ADS-B there are a lot of great sites with Garmin's ADS-B Academy being a good starting point and the FAA itself: http://www.faa.gov/nextgen/implementati ... /adsb/faq/.

There are two methods to comply with the 2020 ADS-B out directive: TSO-C154c (Universal Access Transceiver or UAT) and TSO-C166b (1090ES). UAT is only supported in the US so if you want to go international you'll need to with 1090ES. 1090ES is based on the current Mode S Class 1 transponder paradigm. This is why you can buy an upgrade to a Garmin 330 and be compliant with 1090ES transmission standards. Trig has several compliant models and Dynon has their SV-XPNDR-261.

UAT is a new frequency band and requires a new, standalone ADS-B transmitter. It will have it's own squawk code that will need to be sync'ed with the Mode C transponder or have a common controller for setting the squawk code. UAT is also the method for getting ADS-B In (Traffic and weather). Freeflight, Navworx and Garmin all have UAT solutions.

Now, just because you have a TSO-C154c or TSO-C166b certified ADS-B transmitter does not mean you meet the 2020 mandate. You also need a TSO-C145 GPS position source (or a TSO-C146 approach certified navigation system). It is possible to use a non-certified GPS position before 2020 and enjoy the benefits of ADS-B, though.

For details about the transmission streams and data requirements for all the ADS-B related TSOs you may enjoy reading the 670 page RTCA DO-282B document. Going through this will give you an idea why Garmin has stated the 39x/49x/69x/79x will NEVER be compliant. FAR 91.227 has a pretty good high-level description of key data fields as well.

There has been debate as to whether a portable system can be used to satisfy the mandate. Short answer is 'yes' although the unit ceases to become a portable once it complies with the TSO since the TSO must contain appropriate installation instructions such that the performance is guaranteed to compliant.

We're still not done for an S-LSA. The airplane manufacturer must also approve the system. This would most likely be by a fleet-wide Service Directive or Notification although each individual could ask for a Letter of Authorization (LOA) for their favorite ADS-B solution and I'm sure the manufacturer would be willing to accept your solution for a fee.

You can circumvent the Service Directive/Notification/LOA route if you take your S-LSA to E-LSA although the TSO'ed equipment is required as per FAR 91.225.
dave

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Re: ADS-B out for S-LSA

Postby Jack Tyler » Mon Aug 11, 2014 4:39 am

Excellent overview, Dave. Thanks!
Jack
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Jim Stewart
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Re: ADS-B out for S-LSA

Postby Jim Stewart » Mon Aug 11, 2014 12:31 pm

Why would you need to retain your mode C transponder if you installed a UAT?
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MrMorden
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Re: ADS-B out for S-LSA

Postby MrMorden » Mon Aug 11, 2014 12:42 pm

Jim Stewart wrote:Why would you need to retain your mode C transponder if you installed a UAT?


The mode C transponder is still required as well, and I don't think the UAT does normal mode C transponder duties, it's just a 978MHz transceiver for ADB-B.


I think. :)
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Re: ADS-B out for S-LSA

Postby dstclair » Mon Aug 11, 2014 12:54 pm

MrMorden wrote:
Jim Stewart wrote:Why would you need to retain your mode C transponder if you installed a UAT?


The mode C transponder is still required as well, and I don't think the UAT does normal mode C transponder duties, it's just a 978MHz transceiver for ADB-B.


I think. :)

Yes -- a Mode C transponder is required. UAT is a completely different frequency band and is exclusive for ADS-B information. 1090ES can satisfy both ADS-B and Mode C with a Garmin 330 ES, Trig TT31 and Dynon SV-261 (and their are most likely others).
dave

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Re: ADS-B out for S-LSA

Postby Jim Stewart » Mon Aug 11, 2014 1:35 pm

The UAT data link has everything that a mode C transponder sends and more, including pressure altitude. I see absolutely no reason why there would be a need for a mode C transponder unless it's for backwards compatibility.

EDIT: From the FAA's website:

Will Mode C transponders be required indefinitely?
The FAA is considering additional changes in the national airspace system, such as for TCAS. These changes, may at some future date, reduce or eliminate the need for transponder equipage.


So it looks like some kind of present compatibility issue on the FAA's end. It would be way nice if they resolve it by 2020.
Last edited by Jim Stewart on Mon Aug 11, 2014 1:43 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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dstclair
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Re: ADS-B out for S-LSA

Postby dstclair » Mon Aug 11, 2014 1:41 pm

Everything I've seen written on this subject says that Mode C was kept as a backup.
dave

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MrMorden
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Re: ADS-B out for S-LSA

Postby MrMorden » Mon Aug 11, 2014 1:45 pm

Yeah, it's so radar can still be used in case NextGen has a failure.
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CTLSi
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Re: ADS-B out for S-LSA

Postby CTLSi » Mon Aug 11, 2014 2:42 pm

......
Last edited by CTLSi on Mon Dec 01, 2014 6:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: ADS-B out for S-LSA

Postby Nomore767 » Mon Aug 11, 2014 4:10 pm

"Yes -- a Mode C transponder is required. UAT is a completely different frequency band and is exclusive for ADS-B information. 1090ES can satisfy both ADS-B and Mode C with a Garmin 330 ES, Trig TT31 and Dynon SV-261 (and their are most likely others)."

dave

Dave,
You're correct. Dynon recommends using the SV-XPNDR-261 in order to be 2020 compliant and not the lower power SV-XPNDR-262 unit.

From Dynon:-

US 2020 ADS-B Out Compliance: The SV-XPNDR-261 is the first transponder on the experimental market that will be able to be used
to satisfy the FAA’s “2020 ADS-B Out mandate”. Note, full ADS-B Out compliance in 2020 (US) requires a TSO’d / ADS-B compliant GPS
to be connected.

Also, in the US, only the higher power SV-XPNDR-261 will meet the FAA’s 2020 ADS-B Out mandate.


Dynon Warranty, Support, and Service: SkyView transponders come with a 3-year Dynon Warranty.

Pricing: SV-XPNDR-261 Mode-S Class 1 Transponder (FAA 2020 ADS-B Out compliant in the US) $2,200
SV-XPNDR-262 Mode-S Class 2 Transponder (<15,000 feet, <175 knots only) $1,800

SV-XPNDR-261
Usage 250 Watt; Can meet 2020 FAA ADS-B Out mandate 130 Watt

SV-XPNDR-262

<15,000 ft, <175 knots only; cannot be used for 2020 FAA ADS-B Out mandate
Last edited by Nomore767 on Mon Aug 11, 2014 4:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.

MovingOn
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Re: ADS-B out for S-LSA

Postby MovingOn » Mon Aug 11, 2014 4:22 pm

.......
Last edited by MovingOn on Sun Aug 24, 2014 10:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Nomore767
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Re: ADS-B out for S-LSA

Postby Nomore767 » Mon Aug 11, 2014 4:29 pm

Jim,

Most folks don't need a picture, you just have to read what the manufacturer says about their product and study the specs.
Others, not so much…..

http://www.dynonavionics.com/downloads/ ... %20Res.pdf


US 2020 ADS-B Out Compliance:

The SV-XPNDR-261 is the first transponder on the experimental market that will be able to be used
to satisfy the FAA’s “2020 ADS-B Out mandate”. Note, full ADS-B Out compliance in 2020 (US) requires a TSO’d / ADS-B compliant GPS
to be connected.

Also, in the US, only the higher power SV-XPNDR-261 will meet the FAA’s 2020 ADS-B Out mandate.

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Re: ADS-B out for S-LSA

Postby MrMorden » Mon Aug 11, 2014 5:39 pm

CTLSi wrote:The 2020 mandate will require the portable Garmin 796 be replaced with a TSO'd GPS/WAAS five years from now... But the Mode-S transponder already meets the 2020 mandate and can be retained, along with the Dynon SV-ADSB-470 Module.


So you have finally accepted that the 796 may not be used after the 2020 deadline?
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Wm.Ince
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Re: ADS-B out for S-LSA

Postby Wm.Ince » Mon Aug 11, 2014 6:24 pm

MrMorden wrote:
CTLSi wrote:The 2020 mandate will require the portable Garmin 796 be replaced with a TSO'd GPS/WAAS five years from now... But the Mode-S transponder already meets the 2020 mandate and can be retained, along with the Dynon SV-ADSB-470 Module.
So you have finally accepted that the 796 may not be used after the 2020 deadline?
Andy,

Are you trying to squeeze blood out of a turnip again?
No offense to the turnips. . . . :D

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Re: ADS-B out for S-LSA

Postby snaproll » Tue Aug 12, 2014 10:10 am

Still looking into options for my Remos GX. Have written to Remos to ascertain if they have any "approved" options on the horizon but have received no response yet. I wrote NavWorx advising which transponder and GPS I have. Interesting option keeping my Garmin MAP496 and adding the NavWorx equipment to achieve the ADS-B Out requirement. NavWorx response below:

Hello Don,

Thanks for considering NavWorx for your ADS-B solution.

We have two units.
The ADS600-B unit is TSO'd and compliant for 2020. The internal GPS WAAS is non-compliant for 2020, however we offer the B at a low cost of $2399. In April 2016 thru 2020 we will offer a certified GPS upgrade for the cost of $500. After the upgrade the ADS600-B becomes a BG.

The ADS600-BG unit is TSO'd and the internal GPS WAAS is compliant for 2020 now. The cost is $3299.

You will need a GPS antenna, our price is $369.00. You will also need a UAT antenna, our price is $94.00.

Your GTX330 is compatiable with our units. (you do not need an ES upgrade)

If you want to receive traffic on your 496 you may wire to the RS232 interface. Due to Garmin proprietary protocol you will not be able to receive weather.

We also have a WIFI module that will display weather and traffic on an iPad. You will need to use one of these applications, WingXpro, IFly, FlyQ, eKneeboard and there will be more in the future. The WIFI price is $89.00.



Best Regards,
Bethany Bunin
Customer Support Specialist
NavWorx Incorporated
888-628-9679
(972) 372-0687 (direct)
469-327-2683 (fax)
www.navworx.com


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