ADS-B out for S-LSA

The Federal Aviation Regulations (also know as FAR's). This is the Bible of aviation, the rules under which we operate. This is where you'll find everything you want to know about pilots and airplanes in the United States. Ask questions. Get answers.

Moderator: drseti

Merlinspop
Posts: 983
Joined: Mon Apr 08, 2013 2:48 pm
Location: WV Eastern Panhandle

Re: ADS-B out for S-LSA

Postby Merlinspop » Tue Aug 12, 2014 11:03 am

Another thing to keep in mind, probably more for part 23 certified airplanes, is that the 1090 route is an international standard, and thus can be used for international travel, while the UAT route is not. UAT offers more bandwidth for traffic and weather, but that can be gained by a UAT receiver (the 1090 out data stream can be configured to tell the ground station what data to send back up).
- Bruce

User avatar
snaproll
Posts: 204
Joined: Sun May 22, 2011 12:11 pm
Location: Southern California - OXR

Re: ADS-B out for S-LSA

Postby snaproll » Tue Aug 12, 2014 12:49 pm

Merlinspop wrote:Another thing to keep in mind, probably more for part 23 certified airplanes, is that the 1090 route is an international standard, and thus can be used for international travel, while the UAT route is not. UAT offers more bandwidth for traffic and weather, but that can be gained by a UAT receiver (the 1090 out data stream can be configured to tell the ground station what data to send back up).


Thanks Bruce.. I just want to make sure I can implement without butchering my avionics - quite happy with what I have now. I don't do international flights, just concerned with flights within US airspace.

Jack Tyler
Posts: 1380
Joined: Tue Nov 30, 2010 5:49 pm
Location: Jacksonville, FL

Re: ADS-B out for S-LSA

Postby Jack Tyler » Tue Aug 12, 2014 12:54 pm

What a clean and clear-cut response you received, Don. I found that refreshing. Thanks for sharing it with us.
Jack
Flying in/out KBZN, Bozeman MT in a Grumman Tiger
Do you fly for recreational purposes? Please visit http://www.theraf.org

User avatar
snaproll
Posts: 204
Joined: Sun May 22, 2011 12:11 pm
Location: Southern California - OXR

Re: ADS-B out for S-LSA

Postby snaproll » Tue Aug 12, 2014 4:26 pm

Jack Tyler wrote:What a clean and clear-cut response you received, Don. I found that refreshing. Thanks for sharing it with us.


Thanks Jack.. I am just looking for a simple installation and keeping what I already have. Already receive traffic on my GPS screen when I cross through LAX's 30 mile veil. Will probably put together a request for an LOA from Remos for installation. My local FAA folks are recommending installation sooner than later based on local traffic congestion. Have received no response to date from Remos regarding their "approved" plan. VR.. Don

User avatar
dstclair
Posts: 974
Joined: Thu Mar 06, 2008 11:23 am
Location: Allen, TX

Re: ADS-B out for S-LSA

Postby dstclair » Tue Aug 12, 2014 4:33 pm

Was trying to keep this thread away from products but.....

Don -- I'd suggest the Delta Pop antenna for a few bucks cheaper and with better performance: http://www.deltapopaviation.com/UAT_Antenna.html

Also read that it will work (and a Van's forum member has it working) with the Garmin 327.
dave

User avatar
snaproll
Posts: 204
Joined: Sun May 22, 2011 12:11 pm
Location: Southern California - OXR

Re: ADS-B out for S-LSA

Postby snaproll » Tue Aug 12, 2014 5:23 pm

dstclair wrote:Was trying to keep this thread away from products but.....

Don -- I'd suggest the Delta Pop antenna for a few bucks cheaper and with better performance: http://www.deltapopaviation.com/UAT_Antenna.html

Also read that it will work (and a Van's forum member has it working) with the Garmin 327.


Appreciate the assistance... Will check it out.. VR.. Don

CTLSi
Posts: 783
Joined: Thu Jun 27, 2013 7:38 pm

Re: ADS-B out for S-LSA

Postby CTLSi » Tue Aug 12, 2014 7:49 pm

......
Last edited by CTLSi on Mon Dec 01, 2014 6:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
drseti
Posts: 5530
Joined: Sat Nov 28, 2009 6:42 pm
Location: Lock Haven PA
Contact:

Re: ADS-B out for S-LSA

Postby drseti » Tue Aug 12, 2014 8:05 pm

This from that article:

the mandate in question requires that airplanes that fly in what is essentially transponder-required airspace today have ADS-B Out installed by 2020
.

"Transponder-required airspace" - there it is, guys, the new terminology, allaying all confusion!
The opinions posted are those of one CFI, and do not necessarily represent the FAA or its lawyers.
Prof. H. Paul Shuch, Ph.D., CFII, LSRM-A/GL/WS/PPC, iRMT
AvSport of Lock Haven
fly@AvSport.org
http://AvSport.org
http://facebook.com/SportFlying

User avatar
drseti
Posts: 5530
Joined: Sat Nov 28, 2009 6:42 pm
Location: Lock Haven PA
Contact:

Re: ADS-B out for S-LSA

Postby drseti » Wed Aug 13, 2014 9:48 am

Just found this document. Very clear explanations:

http://www.sea-avionics.com/documents/SEA_ADSB.pdf
The opinions posted are those of one CFI, and do not necessarily represent the FAA or its lawyers.
Prof. H. Paul Shuch, Ph.D., CFII, LSRM-A/GL/WS/PPC, iRMT
AvSport of Lock Haven
fly@AvSport.org
http://AvSport.org
http://facebook.com/SportFlying

User avatar
MrMorden
Posts: 1830
Joined: Fri Aug 17, 2012 7:28 am
Location: Athens, GA

Re: ADS-B out for S-LSA

Postby MrMorden » Wed Aug 13, 2014 10:06 am

drseti wrote:This from that article:

the mandate in question requires that airplanes that fly in what is essentially transponder-required airspace today have ADS-B Out installed by 2020
.

"Transponder-required airspace" - there it is, guys, the new terminology, allaying all confusion!


No, we have been told only the FAA can make up new airspace terms. We are stuck with "A, B, C, D, and mode C veil airspace".

:mrgreen:
Andy Walker
Athens, GA
Sport Pilot ASEL, LSRI
2007 Flight Design CTSW E-LSA

User avatar
snaproll
Posts: 204
Joined: Sun May 22, 2011 12:11 pm
Location: Southern California - OXR

Re: ADS-B out for S-LSA

Postby snaproll » Thu Aug 14, 2014 3:14 pm

Think I am going back to the wait & see mode regarding Nextgen... There appear to be holes with no answers. Most experimental and LSA aircraft do not have certified avionics. Adding in a certified GPS source and certified transponder are required, but nowhere is a certified altitude encoder required. Many aircraft such as mine use the Dynon D100 EFIS which also provides altitude encoder data to the transponder. The D100 along with a host of other panels are not certified. I appears there will be revisions to Nextgen, either adding stricter requirement or relaxing requirements for experimental and LSA aircraft. Jumping in now may very well be unwise as further changes will be required to address the holes in the ADS-B out requirements. VR.. Don

User avatar
dstclair
Posts: 974
Joined: Thu Mar 06, 2008 11:23 am
Location: Allen, TX

Re: ADS-B out for S-LSA

Postby dstclair » Thu Aug 14, 2014 3:30 pm

I hold out a glimmer of hope that an uncertified WAAS GPS will be approved for VFR-only operations.

Easy enough to indicate the 'trust' of the position source in a couple of the fields and shouldn't factor into the more efficient routing the airlines want due different VFR/IFR altitudes.
dave

Jack Tyler
Posts: 1380
Joined: Tue Nov 30, 2010 5:49 pm
Location: Jacksonville, FL

Re: ADS-B out for S-LSA

Postby Jack Tyler » Wed Aug 20, 2014 4:21 am

I've seen a lot of back 'n forth this year about the need to install ADS-B Out equipment (and a certified WAAS GPS) sooner rather than later. Pete Bunce, President of GAMA, recently spoke about this with AVweb, and it was then covered by Aviation Consumer. Bet many of you have seen this, too. The general logic is that there are only so many avionics shops, many a/c that will need to comply (Pete used the number 220,000, if I recall), there are multiple solutions now in the marketplace, and so a) avoid the musical chairs scenario where there's no chair for you as 2020 arrives and b) enjoy the benefits of ADS-B Out over the next 5+ years. The FAA and the various shops have all been singing harmony with these lyrics, altho' all these organizations have a dog in the same fight.

But not everyone sees it that way. Paul Bertorelli authored an editorial in AVweb the other day in which he a) challenged that large number of conversions (given the many owners who fly in the less populated areas of the country or with simple & recreational flying needs), b) offered the personal opinion that when the FAA states there will be NO slippage in the date, that means at least a year, and c) who knows what new products will be introduced between now and 2020. I've seen these points all being made in a number of places, too, including here.

With that long-winded intro behind me, here's a post l read this morning on the CFO (Cardinals Flying Organization) message list, usually a source of pretty valid detail on equipment suitable for Cardinals. It comes from a CFO member who'd been having some extended discussions with the Stratus II manufacturer Appareo.

"And speaking of Appareo; They are in the final stages of certification
of a transponder - for 2015 release - that will include a WAAS GPS which
will make it a single box solution for ADS-B "out". Install the
transponder and a dedicated GPS antenna and you're all set.
Additionally, it will be able to connect directly to the Stratus II if
desired instead of the optional external antennas.

Guy R. Maher,
Lanier Media"

I've been wondering when we would hear about such news from a normally non-TSO equipment manufacturer. My best guess (or wishful thinking) has been Dynon. Don't know how to weigh the validity of the 'report' but hadn't given any thought to Appareo entering this market. Any of you heard about such a product from them?
Jack
Flying in/out KBZN, Bozeman MT in a Grumman Tiger
Do you fly for recreational purposes? Please visit http://www.theraf.org

User avatar
MrMorden
Posts: 1830
Joined: Fri Aug 17, 2012 7:28 am
Location: Athens, GA

Re: ADS-B out for S-LSA

Postby MrMorden » Wed Aug 20, 2014 7:54 am

dstclair wrote:I hold out a glimmer of hope that an uncertified WAAS GPS will be approved for VFR-only operations.

Easy enough to indicate the 'trust' of the position source in a couple of the fields and shouldn't factor into the more efficient routing the airlines want due different VFR/IFR altitudes.


I hope that happens, but the reason I doubt it is that the position source requirement is not for any pilot benefit, it's for ATC. They need accurate position on ALL targets, VFR or IFR, in order to provide good traffic separation. The only way they can be confident of good position data under all conditions is to use a GPS source that has been tested under a wide range of conditions...which means a TSO.

And yes, I understand there is no practical difference in data reliability between a TSO'ed GPS and a non-TSO'ed GPS...but to the FAA, if it hasn't been tested and certified, it can't be *proven* that the position data is accurate under all expected conditions of weather, aircraft orientation, RF interference, etc
Andy Walker
Athens, GA
Sport Pilot ASEL, LSRI
2007 Flight Design CTSW E-LSA


Return to “FARs”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest