remove wings on quicksilver? (SLSA)

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busted
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remove wings on quicksilver? (SLSA)

Postby busted » Thu Jun 26, 2014 8:51 pm

Looking to buy the new SLSA quicksilver. To trailer it home the dealer says I can remove and put the wings back on myself and don't need a A@P to sign it off. Is that correct?

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Re: remove wings on quicksilver? (SLSA)

Postby 3Dreaming » Thu Jun 26, 2014 10:08 pm

I'm not sure that is correct. Removing and installing wings is not listed as preventive maintenance in part 43, and that is all you can do as a pilot according to the FAA.

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MrMorden
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Re: remove wings on quicksilver? (SLSA)

Postby MrMorden » Tue Jul 01, 2014 8:52 am

busted wrote:Looking to buy the new SLSA quicksilver. To trailer it home the dealer says I can remove and put the wings back on myself and don't need a A@P to sign it off. Is that correct?


Why wouldn't you believe the dealer?
Andy Walker
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Re: remove wings on quicksilver? (SLSA)

Postby 3Dreaming » Tue Jul 01, 2014 9:09 am

MrMorden wrote:
busted wrote:Looking to buy the new SLSA quicksilver. To trailer it home the dealer says I can remove and put the wings back on myself and don't need a A@P to sign it off. Is that correct?


Why wouldn't you believe the dealer?


Andy, the FAA is the authority who says what you can do not the dealer or manufacturer. This dealer has already given him incorrect advise on being able to do sight seeing flights.

MovingOn
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Re: remove wings on quicksilver? (SLSA)

Postby MovingOn » Tue Jul 01, 2014 9:41 am

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Last edited by MovingOn on Tue Aug 19, 2014 4:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: remove wings on quicksilver? (SLSA)

Postby 3Dreaming » Tue Jul 01, 2014 10:40 am

MovingOn wrote:It's called sarcasm.


Sometimes it is hard to tell when you just read the words on the page without knowing the thoughts of person who wrote them. You saw sarcasm, and I saw an honest question. I see the words and take them for what they say, and there was no emoticon to indicate that it was meant any other way. Looking back I see that it could have been meant as a sarcastic comment.

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MrMorden
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Re: remove wings on quicksilver? (SLSA)

Postby MrMorden » Tue Jul 01, 2014 11:46 am

Actually, I was not being sarcastic and didn't know about previous issues with the dealer.

If a Remos dealer told me I could fold and unfold the wings myself (which you can with a Remos) I would have no reason to doubt that. Notwithstanding the previous dealer misinformation factor. In fact, of the manufacturer or dealer told you the airplane could do something, and the POH did not contradict that, I'd think manufacturer/dealer would be on the liability hook if you took their advice and came to grief over it.
Andy Walker
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Re: remove wings on quicksilver? (SLSA)

Postby 3Dreaming » Tue Jul 01, 2014 1:50 pm

Andy, there is guidance for sailplanes with removable wings. They require training under part 61. For powered aircraft it is a maintenance item, and to fold or remove wings requires a maintenance sign off. Someone with only a pilot rating is not authorized to sign off maintenance items not listed in CFR 43 appendix A.

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MrMorden
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Re: remove wings on quicksilver? (SLSA)

Postby MrMorden » Tue Jul 01, 2014 7:41 pm

3Dreaming wrote:Andy, there is guidance for sailplanes with removable wings. They require training under part 61. For powered aircraft it is a maintenance item, and to fold or remove wings requires a maintenance sign off. Someone with only a pilot rating is not authorized to sign off maintenance items not listed in CFR 43 appendix A.


According to that if I bought a Remos with folding wings designed to be operated by the pilot, I'd have to get a mechanic to sign it off every time? I call BS.
Andy Walker
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Re: remove wings on quicksilver? (SLSA)

Postby David » Tue Jul 01, 2014 7:58 pm

I admit I’m the last one to know the answer - so I will throw this out so others to chime in. Would the answer be only with the manufacturer since the governing body is the ASTM International not the FAA? Since any changes or modifications to an SLSA must have a letter of authorization to make the change or fix.

Example the RV12 SLSA the owner can remove the wings with permission from manufacturer.
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Re: remove wings on quicksilver? (SLSA)

Postby CharlieTango » Tue Jul 01, 2014 8:13 pm

I don't think ASTM is the 'governing body'

The FAA is and part 14 applies to Aircraft having a U.S. airworthiness certificate

14 CFR 43.1 - Applicability.

CFR
Updates
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§ 43.1 Applicability.
(a) Except as provided in paragraphs (b) and (d) of this section, this part prescribes rules governing the maintenance, preventive maintenance, rebuilding, and alteration of any—
(1) Aircraft having a U.S. airworthiness certificate;

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MrMorden
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Re: remove wings on quicksilver? (SLSA)

Postby MrMorden » Wed Jul 02, 2014 7:38 am

I think the confusion might be in considering folding/unfolding the wings a "maintenance operation". It might be that it's considered a normal part of ground/flight operations, like any other part of preflight.
Andy Walker
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Re: remove wings on quicksilver? (SLSA)

Postby 3Dreaming » Wed Jul 02, 2014 9:29 am

I've done some searching for information on this without much luck in finding any.

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Re: remove wings on quicksilver? (SLSA)

Postby roger lee » Thu Jul 03, 2014 12:11 am

Hi Busted,

Legally you can't do it because it isn't preventative maint. and isn't a daily operation that is undertaken to fly the plane and not listed in the POH for a daily flight operation. If you could do this then you could pull the wings for an inspection and you can't do that either.

Now you'll probably ask yourself who would know and you would probably be right.
Roger Lee
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Re: remove wings on quicksilver? (SLSA)

Postby drseti » Thu Jul 03, 2014 9:30 am

roger lee wrote:Now you'll probably ask yourself who would know and you would probably be right.


Nobody would know unless there was a problem - then everybody would. I seem to recall a fatal accident at Sun-n-Fun a few years ago involving a folding-wing LSA (Remos?) in which a locking pin was left out.
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