Without visual reference to the surface

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MrMorden
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Re: Without visual reference to the surface

Postby MrMorden » Mon Aug 18, 2014 9:40 am

I had *heard* that a Sport Pilot may not fly above a broken or overcast layer, but that might just be interpretation...I looked for it a few minutes ago in the FARs and could not find specific language to that affect, just the "visual reference to the surface" language. Of course that precludes flying over an overcast, but there are often plenty of gaps in a broken layer to reference the surface.
Andy Walker
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3Dreaming
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Re: Without visual reference to the surface

Postby 3Dreaming » Mon Aug 18, 2014 9:57 am

FastEddieB wrote:That part I think most of us knew*.

It was all that other stuff we were asking for sources on.



*Though, to be honest, I forgot that an instrument rating was required for a Special VFR clearance.


The instrument rating is only required for a Special VFR at night. 91.157, (4), i.

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Re: Without visual reference to the surface

Postby 3Dreaming » Mon Aug 18, 2014 10:06 am

MrMorden wrote:I had *heard* that a Sport Pilot may not fly above a broken or overcast layer, but that might just be interpretation...I looked for it a few minutes ago in the FARs and could not find specific language to that affect, just the "visual reference to the surface" language. Of course that precludes flying over an overcast, but there are often plenty of gaps in a broken layer to reference the surface.


Andy, overcast is a term used for determining the weather at a specific location. You can be flying over an airport that is overcast while having visual reference to the ground, because an area near by is clear.

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FastEddieB
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Re: Without visual reference to the surface

Postby FastEddieB » Mon Aug 18, 2014 10:23 am

3Dreaming wrote:
The instrument rating is only required for a Special VFR at night. 91.157, (4), i.


Thanks for clarifying that. I see the reference now in the quoted text.

I was pretty sure my primary instructor covered Special VFR. And that I had utilized it to get out of Opa Locka on marginal days before I had my Instrument Rating.

Now, a Sport Pilot is still precluded due to the cloud clearances and visibility requirements particular to Sport Pilots.

Correct?
Fast Eddie B.
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drseti
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Re: Without visual reference to the surface

Postby drseti » Mon Aug 18, 2014 10:59 am

CTLSi wrote:(b) Special VFR operations may only be conducted—
<snip>
(or in Alaska, when the sun is 6 degrees or more below the horizon)...


Yes, that's exactly what the FAR says. I'm sure it's a typo, because it says that, in Alaska, to fly Special VFR, the sun has to be 6 degrees or more below the horizon. I'm sure what they meant is that, in Alaska, for a Special, the sun can't be more than 6 degrees below the horizon.
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Re: Without visual reference to the surface

Postby Jim Stewart » Mon Aug 18, 2014 11:00 am

FastEddieB wrote:That part I think most of us knew*.

It was all that other stuff we were asking for sources on.

LOL.
PP-ASEL, Flight Design CTSW owner.

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drseti
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Re: Without visual reference to the surface

Postby drseti » Mon Aug 18, 2014 11:04 am

FastEddieB wrote:Now, a Sport Pilot is still precluded <from Special VFR> due to the cloud clearances and visibility requirements particular to Sport Pilots.

Correct?


That's my understanding, Eddie. And, it probably applies equally to those of us who are Private, Commercial, or Airline Transport pilots flying with lapsed medicals. After all, everybody knows that writing a check to an AME every two years improves our flying skills.
The opinions posted are those of one CFI, and do not necessarily represent the FAA or its lawyers.
Prof. H. Paul Shuch, Ph.D., CFII, LSRM-A/GL/WS/PPC, iRMT
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MrMorden
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Re: Without visual reference to the surface

Postby MrMorden » Mon Aug 18, 2014 12:09 pm

3Dreaming wrote:
MrMorden wrote:I had *heard* that a Sport Pilot may not fly above a broken or overcast layer, but that might just be interpretation...I looked for it a few minutes ago in the FARs and could not find specific language to that affect, just the "visual reference to the surface" language. Of course that precludes flying over an overcast, but there are often plenty of gaps in a broken layer to reference the surface.


Andy, overcast is a term used for determining the weather at a specific location. You can be flying over an airport that is overcast while having visual reference to the ground, because an area near by is clear.


Yeah, I mean an overcast of wide enough area that you cannot see the Earth's surface. Though it doesn't matter much, it sounds like there is no prohibition against flying over an overcast as long as you have visual reference to the Earth, even if it's not in your nearby vicinity...
Andy Walker
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designrs
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Re: Without visual reference to the surface

Postby designrs » Sun Oct 19, 2014 12:16 pm

These clouds while tempting to get on top as a Sport Pilot "with visual reference to the surface" were actually topped out at 7,000 and pretty solid. Headding Norheast I would have had to have been at the "suggested" VFR altitude of 9,500. Wasn't going to happen.

Look again… these clouds were pretty thick, from about 5,000 to 7,000

brok-IMG_3572.jpg
brok-IMG_3572.jpg (101.46 KiB) Viewed 4312 times


Here's a nice scattered layer at about 4,000.
Nice and easy to fly over…

scat-IMG_3551.jpg
scat-IMG_3551.jpg (85.31 KiB) Viewed 4312 times

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Re: Without visual reference to the surface

Postby Merlinspop » Sun Oct 19, 2014 1:41 pm

designrs wrote:Headding Norheast I would have had to have been at the "suggested" VFR altitude of 9,500. Wasn't going to happen.

Um... Not a suggestion, right?
- Bruce

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designrs
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Re: Without visual reference to the surface

Postby designrs » Sun Oct 19, 2014 2:08 pm

I always follow VFR altitudes above 3,000 AGL so I'm in compliance anyway. Didn't I read something on this board recently saying VFR altitudes are not required, just "suggested"?

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drseti
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Re: Without visual reference to the surface

Postby drseti » Sun Oct 19, 2014 2:18 pm

That was from me, Richard, but I could be mistaken. So, I suggest you comply. :wink:
The opinions posted are those of one CFI, and do not necessarily represent the FAA or its lawyers.
Prof. H. Paul Shuch, Ph.D., CFII, LSRM-A/GL/WS/PPC, iRMT
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Re: Without visual reference to the surface

Postby SportPilot » Sun Oct 19, 2014 2:24 pm

.......
Last edited by SportPilot on Wed Oct 22, 2014 9:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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designrs
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Re: Without visual reference to the surface

Postby designrs » Sun Oct 19, 2014 2:33 pm

Thanks for the catch and clarification.


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