Ramp Check
Posted: Sat Sep 22, 2012 9:48 am
I was at a recent WINGS presentation by Ed Leineweber, J.D. and a bunch more, on ramp checks. Few in the audience had been through a ramp check, where an FAA inspector looks at your paperwork and aircraft. I have not.
The consensus at the meeting was there were "white hat" and "black hat" ramp checks, depending on the personality of the inspector.
There are ramp checks that aim at part 91 (us LSA fliers), part 135 (charter) and part 103 (ultralights) and they are a little different. In hangar talk, this gets lost so sometimes you got told one thing about a ramp check that is true for a 135 but not for you as a 91.
Here are just a few highlights of the presentation:
The FAA inspector has to carry and you have a right to see the ID
The FAA inspector is checking on operations, not crusiing around the T hangars looking for a plane that hasn't flown in months.
You don't have to let the FAA inspector inside your airplane.
Anything you say can be used by the FAA. For example, you land early one morning, taxi to parking and tie down your airplane. Your passenger heads for the ladies room. A person approaches, flashes a badge (OR MAYBE DOESN'T!) and says, "nice looking airplane, where did you fly in from?" You are flattered and tell of an airport a ways away. "Oh, you must have taken off at night." You respond, "yes, it's quite and calm then - my wife likes to see the stars." Eventually, it gets around to looking at your logbook, which you've brought with you, and the inspector notes that you have not logged currency for night operations.
What could you have said?
When the person approaches and asks the question, the first thing to do might be to pleasantly and politely determine who they are by asking them directly if they are an FAA official and carry on from there. When they pleasantly say, "yes, we're just doing a routine walk around to see how things are going" and then asks you "where did you fly in from", what are you going to tell them?
The instructor said that always, when dealing with the FAA or any federal official DON'T LIE.
We've been told by the FAA that our attitude when we are being looked at is important. If we are positive, want to do right, are interested in correcting our mistakes and improve safety, the FAA will take that into account when considering how to address any aviation sins they think we've committed. So, we've been conditioned to nod our head, smile, bit our tongue and otherwise "cooperate". We think cooperation means talking. So we blab. And the FAA can use what we say. They hand us the shovel and we dig the hole.
So, what do you do when the stranger comes up and says, "nice plane, my friend has one like it, where'd you come in from"? Our natural reaction is to beam and say, "oh, we took off at night from XXX and flew in just now." What should we say?
Probably something like, "hey, thats' great. What's your friend's name, maybe I know him. They're a sweet airplane. my wife just went to the ladies room and I'm going to join her for breakfast just as soon as I get this tied down. Sorry to be in a hurry." Or, if you're like me, you'd just say, "are you from the FAA"?
No one is suggesting that one "play games" but one does want to make sure who one is talking with before one says something that could be used against them.
To answer the first example, I'd find out if he was from the FAA and when I learned that, my response would be, pleasantly, "I'm going to join my wife now and we have plans so I'd like to move along. What is it that you'd like?" If he then asks again, where'd you fly in from, I'd say that I don't care to discuss anything outside the scope of his surveillance (their word for it).
Should you carry your pilot and aircraft log books? There are sometimes reasons for doing so but usually there are not, so it's not a good idea to carry anything not required. If they see it laying on the seat, they can demand it and then they can use anything they find in it. If it's safely at home, you can send them pertinent information without giving them the entire book so they can go through it.
Do SP pilots have to carry their log books? The FAA says yes, but the question is, what is a log book? My understanding is that you required to carry the documentation and endorsements the FAA has stipulated. That does not have to be the little book or electronic device you record every flight in. You have to be able to prove you are legal for whatever you are doing. My reference for this is Carol Carpenter of Rainbow Aviation who says they often get requests for endorsements to be made in a separate "log book" that is solely to satisfy the FAA requirements.
One school of thought is to carry one book and make sure it's always right (make sure you don't lose it). Neat, clean and simple.
Another is to carry a log book of necessary endorsements and currency requirements and either not log other information or log it elsewhere. For example, one could log everything in the electronic log and keep the on-board paper log current by making such duplicate entries as might be needed (for example, 3 T/O LDG in 90 days).
Well, this should start a firestorm of personal experiences, "I know for a facts"s, "I had a friend" and so forth. Ramp check. White hat, black hat. What do we "know" about them and what do we really know based on the regs and FAA Order?
The consensus at the meeting was there were "white hat" and "black hat" ramp checks, depending on the personality of the inspector.
There are ramp checks that aim at part 91 (us LSA fliers), part 135 (charter) and part 103 (ultralights) and they are a little different. In hangar talk, this gets lost so sometimes you got told one thing about a ramp check that is true for a 135 but not for you as a 91.
Here are just a few highlights of the presentation:
The FAA inspector has to carry and you have a right to see the ID
The FAA inspector is checking on operations, not crusiing around the T hangars looking for a plane that hasn't flown in months.
You don't have to let the FAA inspector inside your airplane.
Anything you say can be used by the FAA. For example, you land early one morning, taxi to parking and tie down your airplane. Your passenger heads for the ladies room. A person approaches, flashes a badge (OR MAYBE DOESN'T!) and says, "nice looking airplane, where did you fly in from?" You are flattered and tell of an airport a ways away. "Oh, you must have taken off at night." You respond, "yes, it's quite and calm then - my wife likes to see the stars." Eventually, it gets around to looking at your logbook, which you've brought with you, and the inspector notes that you have not logged currency for night operations.
What could you have said?
When the person approaches and asks the question, the first thing to do might be to pleasantly and politely determine who they are by asking them directly if they are an FAA official and carry on from there. When they pleasantly say, "yes, we're just doing a routine walk around to see how things are going" and then asks you "where did you fly in from", what are you going to tell them?
The instructor said that always, when dealing with the FAA or any federal official DON'T LIE.
We've been told by the FAA that our attitude when we are being looked at is important. If we are positive, want to do right, are interested in correcting our mistakes and improve safety, the FAA will take that into account when considering how to address any aviation sins they think we've committed. So, we've been conditioned to nod our head, smile, bit our tongue and otherwise "cooperate". We think cooperation means talking. So we blab. And the FAA can use what we say. They hand us the shovel and we dig the hole.
So, what do you do when the stranger comes up and says, "nice plane, my friend has one like it, where'd you come in from"? Our natural reaction is to beam and say, "oh, we took off at night from XXX and flew in just now." What should we say?
Probably something like, "hey, thats' great. What's your friend's name, maybe I know him. They're a sweet airplane. my wife just went to the ladies room and I'm going to join her for breakfast just as soon as I get this tied down. Sorry to be in a hurry." Or, if you're like me, you'd just say, "are you from the FAA"?
No one is suggesting that one "play games" but one does want to make sure who one is talking with before one says something that could be used against them.
To answer the first example, I'd find out if he was from the FAA and when I learned that, my response would be, pleasantly, "I'm going to join my wife now and we have plans so I'd like to move along. What is it that you'd like?" If he then asks again, where'd you fly in from, I'd say that I don't care to discuss anything outside the scope of his surveillance (their word for it).
Should you carry your pilot and aircraft log books? There are sometimes reasons for doing so but usually there are not, so it's not a good idea to carry anything not required. If they see it laying on the seat, they can demand it and then they can use anything they find in it. If it's safely at home, you can send them pertinent information without giving them the entire book so they can go through it.
Do SP pilots have to carry their log books? The FAA says yes, but the question is, what is a log book? My understanding is that you required to carry the documentation and endorsements the FAA has stipulated. That does not have to be the little book or electronic device you record every flight in. You have to be able to prove you are legal for whatever you are doing. My reference for this is Carol Carpenter of Rainbow Aviation who says they often get requests for endorsements to be made in a separate "log book" that is solely to satisfy the FAA requirements.
One school of thought is to carry one book and make sure it's always right (make sure you don't lose it). Neat, clean and simple.
Another is to carry a log book of necessary endorsements and currency requirements and either not log other information or log it elsewhere. For example, one could log everything in the electronic log and keep the on-board paper log current by making such duplicate entries as might be needed (for example, 3 T/O LDG in 90 days).
Well, this should start a firestorm of personal experiences, "I know for a facts"s, "I had a friend" and so forth. Ramp check. White hat, black hat. What do we "know" about them and what do we really know based on the regs and FAA Order?