Demonstrating a LSA

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MikeM
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Demonstrating a LSA

Postby MikeM » Tue Aug 12, 2008 2:08 pm

In my latest issue of Flying magazine a question was asked in their Light Sport Q + A section on whether a light sport licensed pilot could demonstrate a Light Sport aircraft. Flying magazine's answer was that a pilot had to have at least a Private pilot license to demonstrate or sell an aircraft.

So what constitutes demonstrating an aircraft? I regularly fly a rental CTLS to fly in breakfasts and such and am constantly talking to people about the airplane and Light Sport training, I've even let people sit in the airplane. My guess would be that demonstrating the aircraft would involve flying the aircraft with a prospective customer. Is that correct?

I've never had anyone ask for a ride and if I did I would refuse and tell them to contact the flight school. I would hate to think that I am breaking any regulations just by talking to people who are interested in the airplane.

I've found that there is a lot of interest in Light Sport aircraft and the Light Sport license. I flew to Sandusky, Ohio (SKY) last Sunday and talked to people for 1 1/4 hours before I got a chance to get breakfast. I might have to start eating breakfast before I go to a fly in breakfast. :D

Jeff Tipton
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§ 61.315 What are the privileges and limits of my sport pi

Postby Jeff Tipton » Wed Aug 13, 2008 1:23 pm

Reference item 9 as it deals with demonstrating to a prospective buyer. Hope the rest of it helps.

§ 61.315 What are the privileges and limits of my sport pilot certificate?

(a) If you hold a sport pilot certificate you may act as pilot in command of a light-sport aircraft, except as specified in paragraph (c) of this section.

(b) You may share the operating expenses of a flight with a passenger, provided the expenses involve only fuel, oil, airport expenses, or aircraft rental fees. You must pay at least half the operating expenses of the flight.

(c) You may not act as pilot in command of a light-sport aircraft:

(1) That is carrying a passenger or property for compensation or hire.

(2) For compensation or hire.

(3) In furtherance of a business.

(4) While carrying more than one passenger.

(5) At night.

(6) In Class A airspace.

(7) In Class B, C, and D airspace, at an airport located in Class B, C, or D airspace, and to, from, through, or at an airport having an operational control tower unless you have met the requirements specified in §61.325.

( 8 ) Outside the United States, unless you have prior authorization from the country in which you seek to operate. Your sport pilot certificate carries the limit “Holder does not meet ICAO requirements.”

(9) To demonstrate the aircraft in flight to a prospective buyer if you are an aircraft salesperson.

(10) In a passenger-carrying airlift sponsored by a charitable organization.

(11) At an altitude of more than 10,000 feet MSL.

(12) When the flight or surface visibility is less than 3 statute miles.

(13) Without visual reference to the surface.

(14) If the aircraft has a VHthat exceeds 87 knots CAS, unless you have met the requirements of §61.327.

(15) Contrary to any operating limitation placed on the airworthiness certificate of the aircraft being flown.

(16) Contrary to any limit or endorsement on your pilot certificate, airman medical certificate, or any other limit or endorsement from an authorized instructor.

(17) Contrary to any restriction or limitation on your U.S. driver's license or any restriction or limitation imposed by judicial or administrative order when using your driver's license to satisfy a requirement of this part.

( 18 ) While towing any object.

(19) As a pilot flight crewmember on any aircraft for which more than one pilot is required by the type certificate of the aircraft or the regulations under which the flight is conducted.

MikeM
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Postby MikeM » Thu Aug 14, 2008 3:12 pm

Thanks for the reply. I thought that actually flying the airplane was what was meant by "demonstrating" but I was too lazy to dig out the FARs and look it up. :D

Now I've got a couple more questions. Restriction number 3 states that a Sport Pilot may not act as pilot in command in furtherance of a business. Let's say the flight school where I learned to fly buys a new airplane and needs someone to fly it back to their airport. They ask if I would be interested in doing it. Is that furtherance of business or am I just getting some free flying time?

Also restriction number 10 states that a Sport Pilot may not act as pilot in command of a passenger-carrying airlift sponsored by a charitable organization. Would that include Young Eagle flights sponsored by EAA chapters? Personally I don't feel comfortable taking someone's kids for a ride until I have more hours, but the idea of introducing a young person to the thrill of flying does have it's appeal.

Jeff Tipton
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Postby Jeff Tipton » Thu Aug 14, 2008 4:41 pm

The furtherance of a business usually refers to your own business. If you doing it for someone else that gets into commercial operations. As to your question it is a gray area. Although you could fly the aircraft, if you are current and rated in it, you could not receive compensation, the gray area area is you are receiving flight time which some administrators could construe as compensation. Don't ask don't tell.

As to part ten, it would refer to any organization rather it be the EAA, Civil Air Patrol or even a local sponsored event.

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Re: § 61.315 What are the privileges and limits of my spor

Postby drseti » Sun Dec 06, 2009 6:17 pm

Jeff Tipton wrote:
§ 61.315 What are the privileges and limits of my sport pilot certificate?

(c) You may not act as pilot in command of a light-sport aircraft:

(9) To demonstrate the aircraft in flight to a prospective buyer if you are an aircraft salesperson. (emphasis added)


So, since I am not an aircraft sales person, merely a flight instructor, doesn't this imply I may demonstrate an aircraft in flight to a prospective buyer, when exercising sport pilot privileges?
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Jeff Tipton
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Postby Jeff Tipton » Sun Dec 06, 2009 11:24 pm

If you were a commercial pilot, with a current 2nd class medical or better, and with a current CFI rating there would be no problem.

At the sport pilot CFI level the answer is very clouded. The administrator could construe that as you are demonstrating the aircraft you could be considered as an aircraft sales person; but nothing would preclude you as a current sport pilot CFI to give dual instruction to a pilot or a student.

The sport pilot rules have interesting aspects and each administrator may interpret the regulations quite differently from even the administrator across the hall.

I would in this case log the flight as dual instruction and if the individual does not have their logbook with them, then write out the log entry on something like an Avery label and give it to them to insert into their logbook. If they do not post it in their logbook, then that is OK as you have complied with your requirements.

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Paul Hamilton
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Postby Paul Hamilton » Sun Aug 08, 2010 9:54 am

Yes there are many gray areas.
I know the FAA is "cracking down" on CFI's with sport pilot ratings (not privates) doing "demonstration flights" at the airshows. In fact the airshows require a private pilot certificate to be part of the "demonstration flight" group. Here it is pretty cut and dry that the pilots at the airshows are doing "demonstration flights" to sell aircraft rather than flight instruction.

It would start with what is the intent of the flight?
Do you have a business that sells aircraft?

Maybe it would get a little grey if you are the not normally and aircraft sales person but you are trying to sell your own aircraft. In this case "My opinion" is that you are not an aircraft salesperson since that is not your regular job.
Paul is a Sport Pilot CFI/DPE and the expert for ASA who writes the books and produces the DVD's for all pilots flying light sport aircraft.
See www.SportAviationCenter.com www.Sport-Pilot-Training.com and www.BeASportPilot.com to Paul's websites

Jim Stewart
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Postby Jim Stewart » Sun Aug 08, 2010 1:22 pm

While we're on the subject, what's your take on LSRM's with a Light Sport certificate doing test flights? I know of one guy locally that does it all the time. The FAR seems to indicate you must be at least a private pilot to perform a test flight.

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Paul Hamilton
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Postby Paul Hamilton » Sun Aug 08, 2010 4:44 pm

No clear answer on this, I am not the final say, but here is what I do know.
43.1 (b) lets the E-LSA of the hook for maintenance and alterations and "maybe/probably" test flights. Usually the limitations in the aircraft issued by the FAA state that any major changes that "appreciably changed the flight characteristics" must be test flown and I do not think it would require a private pilot for a LSA.

For S-LSA, 91.327 (b) 6 allows the manufacturer to specify who does what "or" the FAA which leads to 91.407 (b) where the private pilot minimum rating is required to do test flights only for "appreciably changed the flight characteristics". So any carb sync, engine repairs, general maintenance would not require a test flight.

Bottom line, the manufacturer calls the shots for S-LSA who can do what per 91.327 (b) 6 and I know the CT allows anybody with a "flight" certificate to be test flights after major alterations.

So i think, unless the manfacturer states it must be a private piliot (agreeing with the FAA), even for "appreciably changing the flight characteristics", the LSRM with a sport pilot rating is OK to do test flights.
Paul is a Sport Pilot CFI/DPE and the expert for ASA who writes the books and produces the DVD's for all pilots flying light sport aircraft.

See www.SportAviationCenter.com www.Sport-Pilot-Training.com and www.BeASportPilot.com to Paul's websites


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