Sport Pilot Talk

smutny wrote:One of these days I'll correctly state that.

Don't feel bad. The FARs are deliberately designed to confuse everybody (except maybe the lawyers)

drseti wrote:

smutny wrote: So, once a year, a person with the appropriate certification has to look at the airplane an deem it airworthy .

Well, technically, no. An SLSA, ELSA, E-AB, etc. can never be airworthy. By definition, airworthy means the aircraft complies with its type certificate, and is in a condition for safe operation. Unless certified, an airplane doesn't have a type certificate, thus isn't airworthy. But, it must still be in a condition for safe operation.

Conclusion: experimentals and LSAs can never be airworthy, but must be safe.

Corollary: certified aircraft can never be safe, but must be airworthy.

Actually by definition any aircraft that has an airworthiness certificate is "certified". It is just that the different airworthiness certificates certify different things. For experimental and SLSA the certificate means that the aircraft was in compliance with all applicable regulations on the date the certificate was issued.

As to rebuilding, here is a good article.

https://www.aviationsuppliers.org/ASA/f ... 4/10-1.pdf

So, would this be permissible?

1) I buy a CTLS as an SLSA
2) Convert it to ELSA
3) Take the inspection course

Then, I could
1 Do the 100 hour and annual inspections myself
2) Replace the 5 year rotax rubber parts myself
3) Change the oil, coolant, spark plugs, brake pads, etc. etc. myself
4) Make sure any service bulletins are acted on
5) I could also take it to certified mechanic to work on things I feel are beyond me

Not only permissible, that is entirely reasonable.

WDD wrote:So, would this be permissible?

1) I buy a CTLS as an SLSA
2) Convert it to ELSA
3) Take the inspection course

Then, I could
1 Do the 100 hour and annual inspections myself
2) Replace the 5 year rotax rubber parts myself
3) Change the oil, coolant, spark plugs, brake pads, etc. etc. myself
4) Make sure any service bulletins are acted on
5) I could also take it to certified mechanic to work on things I feel are beyond me

All except #1. A ELSA doesn't get 100 hr. or annual inspections. They get condition inspections, of which one must have been done within the past 12 calendar months to be legal to fly.

For that matter anything other than the condition inspection you can do without taking the inspection course if it is a ELSA.

You could also leave it SLSA and take the 120 hour LSR with Maintenance rating repairman course and still do all of that plus work on other SLSA aircraft.

3Dreaming wrote: You could also leave it SLSA and take the 120 hour LSR with Maintenance rating repairman course and still do all of that plus work on other SLSA aircraft.

True, of course. But the main advantage (IMHO) of going ELSA is that he can do nearly unlimited modifications, without requiring an LoA.

drseti wrote:True, of course. But the main advantage (IMHO) of going ELSA is that he can do nearly unlimited modifications, without requiring an LoA.

And we have a WINNER!

This also in my opinion is the number one reason to go E-LSA. Czech Sport Aircraft (who manufacturers the SportCruiser) will not issue a LOA/MRA for anything. Beware before you buy one. I think in their 12 year history they've issued 2 and it was early on and to the same person. You simply can't get one for anything anymore.

I had avionics in my 2007 SportCruiser that were discontinued by Garmin and the factory would not issue a LOA/MRA to change it out. So I gave them the middle finger and went E-LSA and have never looked back.

Best thing I ever did for my plane.

Of course, that's not an option for me, since mine is a flight school plane in commercial service. But, I'm glad you were able to go that route, Shawn.

drseti wrote:Of course, that's not an option for me, since mine is a flight school plane in commercial service. But, I'm glad you were able to go that route, Shawn.

Yes Paul, this I understand if you offer instruction. There is another legacy SportCruiser in my area who wants to go E-LSA be he also instructs in his plane therefore he can't.

It's been about a year and a half for me now since the conversion and I've made sooooooo many improvements and upgrades to my plane. Couldn't be happier.

Follow up -

If buy someone else's LSA plane that is an EAB,

1) I could do all of the work on it myself except.....
2) I would not be able to do the annual inspection on it with the 16 hour course for LSA Repairman Inspection, as I personally didn't build 51% or more of it myself
3) I would have to have the 120 hour class to be a Light Sport Airplane Repairman Maintenance in order to do the annual inspection

1 and 2 are correct. 3 is not, because the only people who can do condition inspections on an E-AB are the original builder (51% rule) or an A&P. The LSRM (120 hour course) only allows one to inspect an SLSA or ELSA, not an E-AB. For further details, see my LSA Maintenance webinar at:

http://avsport.org/webinars/videos/LSA_maint.mp4

WDD wrote:Follow up -

If buy someone else's LSA plane that is an EAB,

1) I could do all of the work on it myself except.....
2) I would not be able to do the annual inspection on it with the 16 hour course for LSA Repairman Inspection, as I personally didn't build 51% or more of it myself
3) I would have to have the 120 hour class to be a Light Sport Airplane Repairman Maintenance in order to do the annual inspection

Yes you can do all the work, except the condition inspection.

If it has an experimental amateur built airworthiness certificate neither the 16 hour or 120 hour course will allow you to do the condition inspection.
Only an A&P mechanic or FAA approved repair station can do the condition inspection on a EAB.

As a side note for a EAB only the builder of record can get a repairman certificate for that airplane. There is no requirement for that builder to build 51%, only that 51% of the airplane was built for the purpose of education or entertainment. For example 4 A&P mechanics and Joe Blow decide to build an airplane. They find a kit that has 49% of the work already done. They equally complete the remaining 51% of the work to finish the airplane. Joe Blow can apply for the repairman certificare having only completed just over 10% of the project.

I highly recommend watching the following. It
will answer all the questions in this discussion.

https://avsport.org/webinars/videos/elsa.mp4

Tom Fisher