912 uls very hard time to start

H. Paul Shuch is a Light Sport Repairman with Maintenance ratings for airplanes, gliders, weight shift control, and powered parachutes, as well as an independent Rotax Maintenance Technician at the Heavy Maintenance level. He holds a PhD in Air Transportation Engineering from the University of California, and serves as Director of Maintenance for AvSport of Lock Haven.

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chicagorandy
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Re: 912 uls very hard time to start

Postby chicagorandy » Fri Feb 09, 2018 8:47 am

Looks like about $350 USD to repair the module?

https://www.carmo.nl/index.php?main_pag ... 5a8v06jr54

roger lee
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Re: 912 uls very hard time to start

Postby roger lee » Fri Feb 09, 2018 9:36 am

I'm seriously questioning this company overseas. First it would be far cheaper to just replace the stock on.
Second I have tried along with other experts to remove the rubberized potting material without doing any damage. I have tried it all and it always causes severe damage. The potting material is poured around connections and screwed in parts that there is no way to remove it.
It would not shock me that the company says it does this and only gives you a stock one.
The labor time alone would out weigh the rebuild cost and then add parts and shipping.

Next time you get a bad VR try taking it apart without any damage, marks on the case or having to completely cut it out with a saw. Try using a heat gun on it if you want.

Same with ignition modules who say they can rebuild them. try taking one of those apart.
Roger Lee
Tucson, Az.
LSRM-A, Rotax Instructor & Rotax IRC
(520) 574-1080 (Home) Try Home First.
(520) 349-7056 (Cell)

chicagorandy
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Re: 912 uls very hard time to start

Postby chicagorandy » Fri Feb 09, 2018 11:19 am

All I know about the outfit comes from their website -

I thought a single OEM module was $1000? If they are in fact "only" $350 each, then yes, no reason to seek a rebuilt one at all.

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bstrachan
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Re: 912 uls very hard time to start

Postby bstrachan » Fri Feb 09, 2018 11:21 am

I'd love to know where to get one of these modules for $350.00 dollars.

comperini
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Re: 912 uls very hard time to start

Postby comperini » Fri Feb 09, 2018 11:22 am

I can't remember the price I paid from Lockwood (I just bought two), but they are really close to $1000 each
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Re: 912 uls very hard time to start

Postby FastEddieB » Fri Feb 09, 2018 12:08 pm

bstrachan wrote:I'd love to know where to get one of these modules for $350.00 dollars.


I, too wondered what Roger meant when he said, “First it would be far cheaper to just replace the stock one...”

I was “lucky” enough to only pay about $1,000 for two modules when mine failed.
Fast Eddie B.
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RTK
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Re: 912 uls very hard time to start

Postby RTK » Fri Feb 09, 2018 5:34 pm

bstrachan wrote:I'd love to know where to get one of these modules for $350.00 dollars.


I wonder if the part is being confused with an ignition coil vs. an ignition module? Never mind - clicking the linky above took me to the NL site. But those would be repairing your own for $350-ish dollars.

New modules are about $1000 - 1300 (Leading edge has them at $1,2271 each) $1,000 each would be a good price.

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ShawnM
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Re: 912 uls very hard time to start

Postby ShawnM » Mon Feb 12, 2018 10:12 am

roger lee wrote:I'm seriously questioning this company overseas. First it would be far cheaper to just replace the stock on.
Second I have tried along with other experts to remove the rubberized potting material without doing any damage. I have tried it all and it always causes severe damage. The potting material is poured around connections and screwed in parts that there is no way to remove it.
It would not shock me that the company says it does this and only gives you a stock one.
The labor time alone would out weigh the rebuild cost and then add parts and shipping.

Next time you get a bad VR try taking it apart without any damage, marks on the case or having to completely cut it out with a saw. Try using a heat gun on it if you want.

Same with ignition modules who say they can rebuild them. try taking one of those apart.


Roger,

We are talking about the IGNITION MODULE not the voltage regulator. The VR is cheaper to replace than to try and repair. :mrgreen:

The company in the Netherlands repairs the ignition modules. And even opening one of these is nearly impossible. So instead they remove a small section on the back side where the 2 bad parts are that need to be replaced. After they replace the parts they re-pot the area.

I just found my email from Carmo and back in 2016 when I inquired about a repair. I was quoted €183 each which at todays exchange rate is about $225 each to repair.

Are we on the same page now?
Last edited by ShawnM on Mon Feb 12, 2018 10:34 am, edited 3 times in total.

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ShawnM
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Re: 912 uls very hard time to start

Postby ShawnM » Mon Feb 12, 2018 10:21 am

bstrachan wrote:I'd love to know where to get one of these modules for $350.00 dollars.


There is some confusion here.......

Ignition modules are $931.12 each from Lockwood and you need 2

Voltage regulators are $147.57 from Lockwood and you need 1

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bstrachan
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Re: 912 uls very hard time to start

Postby bstrachan » Mon Feb 12, 2018 10:51 am

Re ignition modules: if your problem is hard starting (or NO starting) you may only have to replace one, not both. These things have two modes... START and RUN. To my knowledge the RUN mode is pretty bulletproof. The START mode is known to have problems, but the Rotax will start just fine on one module. I was having intermittent NO START issues, I replaced one module a year or so ago, no more issues.

NOTE: This is just my personal opinion, I am not an A&P or an expert on Rotax ignition problems. If you are concerned about the reliability of your ignition, replace both modules. It's only money.

Also, as I said before, the way these things are sandwiched tightly together is asking for trouble. Heat is the enemy of electronics and these modules get hot. I put a 1/4" spacer between mine and that allows for some airflow. Easy to do and can't hurt.

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ShawnM
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Re: 912 uls very hard time to start

Postby ShawnM » Mon Feb 12, 2018 6:08 pm

bstrachan wrote:Also, as I said before, the way these things are sandwiched tightly together is asking for trouble. Heat is the enemy of electronics and these modules get hot. I put a 1/4" spacer between mine and that allows for some airflow. Easy to do and can't hurt.


Great idea and also add the Thermax temp strips to each module so you can keep track of how hot they may or may not get. I have the 149° to 199° range strips and they haven't reached 149°. :mrgreen:

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bstrachan
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Re: 912 uls very hard time to start

Postby bstrachan » Mon Feb 12, 2018 6:52 pm

Great idea and also add the Thermax temp strips to each module so you can keep track of how hot they may or may not get. I have the 149° to 199° range strips and they haven't reached 149°.


I've wondered how hot mine get. I'd like to put a temporary temp probe on them, but snaking it through the firewall is a challenge. And I'm not sure I could do anything more to cool them even if I didn't like what I saw. Somebody suggested mounting an ice machine on top of the engine (heh, heh) but you'd have to get a Letter of Authorization to do that :mrgreen:

I would hope the jokers who build these modules use MIL SPEC parts (and I don't want to open that can of worms here!).

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ShawnM
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Re: 912 uls very hard time to start

Postby ShawnM » Tue Feb 13, 2018 8:40 am

bstrachan wrote:I've wondered how hot mine get. I'd like to put a temporary temp probe on them, but snaking it through the firewall is a challenge. And I'm not sure I could do anything more to cool them even if I didn't like what I saw. Somebody suggested mounting an ice machine on top of the engine (heh, heh) but you'd have to get a Letter of Authorization to do that :mrgreen:

I would hope the jokers who build these modules use MIL SPEC parts (and I don't want to open that can of worms here!).


The temp strips will tell you how hot they get. My cowling always comes off for the first flight of the day and I can see from a quick glance at the strips if if even got to 149 degrees. I have 3 strips to monitor, one one each ign module and one on the voltage regulator.

The components in the ign module are all off the shelf parts. There is a guy who makes aftermarket modules with improved components against heat related failures for experimentals.

roger lee
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Re: 912 uls very hard time to start

Postby roger lee » Tue Feb 13, 2018 4:11 pm

I've tried to take an ignition module apart. Me and others want to meet the guy that can do it without damage.
Same with the VR.

170F is a killer.
Roger Lee
Tucson, Az.
LSRM-A, Rotax Instructor & Rotax IRC
(520) 574-1080 (Home) Try Home First.
(520) 349-7056 (Cell)


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