Rotax 912 & 100LL

[NCPilot]

There are no airports in my area that has Mogas, and I'm weary about using 100LL fuel with the Rotax 912S. Since Rotax seems to be the leading engine in the LSA world, what can one do to prolong the life of the Rotax 912 series with 100LL fuel?

[bshort]

Use a fuel additive like Declin and change that oil at 25hr on the nose. Been in an 800hr machine with only 100LL and ran like a top.

[ka7eej]

Where do you hanger, tie down your airplane?? I just get 91 oct gas from the gas station in a 10.5 gal can and take it out to the airport.. I use 100ll only when going cross country... Can you not just transport fuel to your plane most of the time??
Brian

[roger lee]

I 'm the same way about 100LL. Never except during cross country and then I use Decalin. My airport doesn't like fuel in the hanger, but many of us just take it out in 5 gal. cans. Just leave the hanger door shut and don't broadcast that you re-fuel in the hanger. You can still bond and ground your work. I also have 2 large 40B-C extinguishers in the hanger.

[ibgarrett]

Roger (and everyone else),

Where we are at (KEIK), they are actually in the process of removing the MOGAS because they don't have enough funding to replace the tanks during a reconstruction. When I asked one person about getting extra fuel storage in the hanger, they said it wasn't allowed.

Of course when I brought it up to my CFI he was rather puzzled by the restriction because there are many other aircraft in the hangers that can hold 50 gallons of fuel per wing, and wouldn't that constitute storing fuel in the hanger?

Yes, yes, the fuel stored in the hanger is in the wings of the airplane vs. a static (or hopefully not-so-staticy) container, but isn't a container is a container is a container?

I'm hoping smarter folks ideas will prevail before this is all washed out. After all - there is a considerable amount of Rotax-based LSA planes at that airport.

[roger lee]

Hi Brian,

The fuel and flammable liquids in the hanger is a fire code that most cities across the nation follow. Most have a 10 gal. limit on flammable liquids and must be in approved cans. The airport can make additional or stronger regulations above an approved fire code. Ours is a 10 gal. max, but people bring it in any way and fill up their planes. Keep the hanger shut during
re-fueling and keep two extinguishers around. It may not be above board, but may be the only way to use 91 Oct. That decision is up to you.

[ibgarrett]

Yeah - I share the hanger with three other airplanes that are used by a flying club (all LSA's) and one of the partners in my plane is the club mechanic. I don't consider it my place to be breaking the rules like that. If, when and until things change, I'll just continue to fuel up at the pump. If the powers that be that have a greater stake in things decide to take matters like this into their own hands I doubt I'll say much about it - but I don't think I would encourage it either.

With my luck I'd probably be the guy to burn the hanger down and get blamed for the whole darn thing.

[Jack Tyler]

Brian & the group:

I had a chance to visit one of the local aerodromes (quaint term, isn't it? but commonly used here...) outside Brisbane recently, and was hosted by some SP CFI's who had 4 LSA a/c in their school hangar, both school planes and two privately owned ones. No one on that field who flies behind a Rotax 912 wants to use 100LL (even tho' there's a self-service fuel station right on the field), so they had a long line of 20L gas containers along one wall of the hangar and would run out to the local BP when it was time to top up the planes - which of course is a regular event for them, given the # of planes and # of flight hours their students bring them.

My reaction is that this arrangement really was unsafe (and I've used mogas regularly for years, so I'm an advocate!). Multiple containers means they've increased their odds that one is going to be kicked over, or a seam is going to crack (there was no barrier around jugs to contain weeping fuel), and it means they are manually handling 20L jugs each time they refuel a plane (which can bring about regular spillage, even if they use a siphon and funnel). And we're also talking about multiple people - they had 3 instructors, 2 sets of multiple owners for the other a/c - each doing their own thing when refueling. It looked to me like this was an accident waiting to happen.

I took an opposite approach as I didn't want a full of jug of gasoline standing around anywhere, hangar or garage at home. So I built up a tank & pump system using a 12 gal plastic fuel tank designed for use in a boat, with a grounding wire for the 12V pump, power plug to the car's courtesy 12V plug and a fuel filter with a changeable cartridge. On departing for the airport, I'd put the (empty) tank in the trunk of the car, stop at a filling station next to the airfield, top it up (vent closed) and then decant the fuel immediately thereafter into the plane. The empty tank (vent closed) sat in the car's trunk (we didn't have a hangar at the time, or I would have put it there temporarily) until after we flew, if we did, and then it was returned home. The filter, pump & hose kit all lived in a cardboard box, so they too were easily removed from the car. There were still opportunities to spill gas...but far fewer and with no danger from stored fuel. I think this whole rig cost me $100 at the time, so it paid for itself in a few months of flying.

There are many 'portable' (meaning: wheeled) fuel bowsers available, with hand-turn pumps, that provide more safety when storing fuel than a plastic jug...but of course there's the fire code issue to think about. That's another thing I liked about how I fueled. Rather than doing it in a closed hangar to hide the jugging of fuel and the jugs, I just drove up to the plane, popped the trunk and dispensed the fuel. This way it wasn't a visible nuisance for the airport management.

I'm not pitching this as a perfect solution for anyone but it sure worked well for us for some years. Thankfully, our 0-320 could be STC'd for autofuel.

[drseti]

I just get 91 oct gas from the gas station in a 10.5 gal can and take it out to the airport.

We've discussed ethanol before, but to reiterate: in those states where all mogas contains ethanol, this is an issue. It was mentioned on another thread that even Al Gore has recanted his support of ethanol in fuel. I found the actual quote from him, on MSNBC:

It is not good policy to have these massive subsidies for first generation ethanol. I think it was a mistake. The energy conversion ratios are at best very small. One of the reasons I made that mistake is that I paid particular attention to the farmers in my home state of Tennessee, and I had a certain fondness for the farmers in the state of Iowa because I was about to run for president.

Refreshing candor from a politician. Whether you agree with Gore or not on various issues, you have to respect his willingness to admit when he was wrong.

[Jack Tyler]

...and as we've mentioned elsewhere, a user-updated data base of ethanol free gas sources, by state, is listed here:

http://pure-gas.org/

Here's the pricing at the gas station that's just down the road from me:
-- at this time, E10 Regular is $3.54 (Jacksonville FL)
-- E0 gas (octane rating not stated at the pump but I believe it's 91) is $4.17
Higher cost for lots of reasons: add'l fuel farm (pump, filtering, tank, etc) needed to support this, small quantity purchase from a smaller supplier

As I mentioned above, there's really no reason for anyone who owns a vehicle not to be doing all their local flying with mogas...and also without fuel storage in a hangar. (Well, I guess if all you drove was a moped... <g>)

[SSDriver]

The plane I'm training in. The insurance company wont allow them to use anything less than 100LL in the plane but they are just fine with the school using additives to the 100LL.. makes sense??? LOL Maybe I'm missing something.. Just struck me odd when the CFI was covering this.

[comperini]

Wow.. I don't think I've ever heard of that restriction before. What insurance company is this?

[Jack Tyler]

It's certainly understandable (if disappointing). Most fields lack mogas, so an insurance company can presume that any non-100LL fuel used will be mogas that comes from an off-field source such as a gas station. Instantly, this introduces multiple variables into the equation: how well/poorly does the owner filter the fuel, how fresh is it (vs. how long has it been sitting in the owner's garage & how well was it stored), what might ethanol do to a little rubber fitting somewhere in the fuel system, owner fuel handling & fueling may introduce other liability issues, and so it goes. Basically, insurance companies like to benefit by the pooling of risk...but they like it better when the risks are minimal, as well. Ironically, this leaves the owner to use a fuel that is not the engine's friend and forces additional maintenance demands on the owner, which are just more opportunities for an error to be made.

OTOH if the insurer mandates 100LL, Voila! All the issues related to how the plane is fueled and with what are known, time tested, and already factored into their loss tables.

I too would like to know which insurer (not broker or agency, but carrier) this is - so I can avoid them.

[roger lee]

Hi SSDriver,

Personally I think your CFI is giving or stating misinformation. No insurance company will override how an aircraft Mfg wishes to have their aircraft maintained and or subvert specified maint procedures. That would mean they are fully liable for any issues arising from there required action. I don't believe it is legal from an FAA standpoint. I would ask that CFI for the insurance company name, call them and ask them, then go correct the CFI so he isn't operating under misinformation. Of the 13-14 main insurers out there I don't believe a one requires this and if it is approved by the aircraft Mfg should not be an issue. The insurers abide by what the plane Mfg states is correct for that aircraft.

If I'm wrong then let me know. If you get the insurers name I'll make the call. I would love to talk to them if this was really the case. The FAA might be willing to chat with them too.

[Jim Stewart]

I know I'm not adding much in a constructive way, but I have to ask: What is more dangerous, 5 gallons in a tightly sealed, approved container or 5 gallons on the hanger floor, dripped out of a leaky Cessna? I've seen both in my hanger.