CFI checkout, is it a real thing?

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Cub flyer
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Re: CFI checkout, is it a real thing?

Postby Cub flyer » Thu Feb 21, 2019 11:56 am

(f)Training received in a multiengine airplane, a helicopter, or a powered-lift. A flight instructor may not give training required for the issuance of a certificate or rating in a multiengine airplane, a helicopter, or a powered-lift unless that flight instructor has at least 5 flight hours of pilot-in-command time in the specific make and model of multiengine airplane, helicopter, or powered-lift, as appropriate.


One other point about 61.195 (f) It is for train towards issuance of a certificate or rating. We are not doing either one during a new airplane insurance checkout. The new owner usually has the required certificates and ratings.

This has come up with examiners refusing to fly in certain types of airplanes for a private or multi check ride. But they are not giving instruction either.

I haven’t found a “checkout checklist" or required statement for a logbook endorsement anywhere yet.
"Perfection is finally attained not when there is no longer anything to add but when there is no longer anything to take away." Antoine de Saint Exupery

3Dreaming
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Re: CFI checkout, is it a real thing?

Postby 3Dreaming » Thu Feb 21, 2019 1:53 pm

Cub flyer wrote: I haven’t found a “checkout checklist" or required statement for a logbook endorsement anywhere yet.


You will need to develop your own checklist tailored to the specific airplane in which you are doing the checkout. As far as the endorsement goes, it needs to be worded to cover the requirements spelled out in the insurance policy.

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drseti
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Re: CFI checkout, is it a real thing?

Postby drseti » Thu Feb 21, 2019 2:14 pm

Cub flyer wrote:I haven’t found a “checkout checklist" or required statement for a logbook endorsement anywhere yet.


Here is an Advisory Circular covering transition training to unfamiliar aircraft:


http://avsport.org/docs/ac/AC90-109.pdf
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Re: CFI checkout, is it a real thing?

Postby Cub flyer » Thu Feb 21, 2019 5:35 pm

The AC is for Homebuilt testing or gaining experience before testing your homebuilt but it’s similar to what is needed.

Reading through the advisory circular the checklist they have is close to how I would check a person out. But the insurance policy has no guidance other than “receive a checkout from qualified CFI” or “CFI signoff” There is nothing beyond that for explanation or requirements.

Where I’m going with all this is I could get in with a person and fly a few hours until they are familiar with the airplane. It’s all up to the instructor to determine what is to be done and it could be totally different between instructors.

If you read the checklist in the AC the way I think the insurance co. should word the policy is..

The policy holder will be considered “qualified” to operate the airplane as PIC after receiving training from a CFI in the items below as applicable. This training should include at least 5 hours of dual instruction and 10 takeoffs and landings” The CFI giving the training must have experience level to meet the open pilot policy for this insured airplane or be named as additional insured.

a. Transition Training. In order to complete a successful transition to a new airplane, in addition to the training and experience described in the group appendices, pilots should follow an organized methodology to become familiar and competent in the new airplane. This study or training should include, as applicable:
(1) Systems.
• Fuel.
• Electrical.
• Hydraulic.
• Flight control.
• Landing gear.
• V entilation/heating/pressurization.
• Avionics.
(2) Procedures.
• Normal.
• Abnormal. • Emergency.
(3) Performance.
• Takeoff and landing. • Climb.
• Cruise. • Descent. • Glide.
(4) Limitations.
• Weight.
• CG.
• Speeds.
• Kinds of operation.
• Crosswind.
• Landing surface.
b. Systems. When “checking out” in any airplane, regardless of the airplane’s size and complexity, or the pilot’s experience level, approach airplane systems with an open mind. Even in simple airplanes of a similar design or even the same model, the innovation of individual designers and builders may cause problems for a pilot new to the airplane.

For the insurance co just to say “signoff” or “checkout” is dangerous to the instructor. The blame in an accident due to pilot error I think could be twisted to include the instructors liability policy if there is one because there are no set requirements listed. The insurance co can simply quote the list above and if one of those items was the accident cause they can claim inadequate instruction was given for the “signoff”

I have no question or problem with what to do for the checkout but if I’m missing something that could come back to haunt me later I’d rather the insurance co spells out exactly what they want. Also no set language for what a Checkout or signoff is.
"Perfection is finally attained not when there is no longer anything to add but when there is no longer anything to take away." Antoine de Saint Exupery

3Dreaming
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Re: CFI checkout, is it a real thing?

Postby 3Dreaming » Thu Feb 21, 2019 7:22 pm

You might check with the manufacturer. They might have guidance. Flight Design has a transition syllabus for the CTLS.

http://documents.flightdesignusa.com//C ... nitial.pdf

Other manufactures might have the same.

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drseti
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Re: CFI checkout, is it a real thing?

Postby drseti » Thu Feb 21, 2019 8:44 pm

Thanks for posting the Flight Design syllabus, Tom. It pretty closely parallels my own LSA transition syllabus, developed in 2009:

http://avsport.org/about/downsize.htm
The opinions posted are those of one CFI, and do not necessarily represent the FAA or its lawyers.
Prof H Paul Shuch
PhD CFII DPE LSRM-A/GL/WS/PPC iRMT
AvSport LLC, KLHV
fly@AvSport.org
AvSport.org
facebook.com/SportFlying
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3Dreaming
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Re: CFI checkout, is it a real thing?

Postby 3Dreaming » Thu Feb 21, 2019 9:47 pm

I took part in the meeting after the Sebring show 2010 to help develop the Flight Design syllibus.

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drseti
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Re: CFI checkout, is it a real thing?

Postby drseti » Thu Feb 21, 2019 10:04 pm

3Dreaming wrote:I took part in the meeting after the Sebring show 2010 to help develop the Flight Design syllibus.


Looks like you did a good job.
The opinions posted are those of one CFI, and do not necessarily represent the FAA or its lawyers.
Prof H Paul Shuch
PhD CFII DPE LSRM-A/GL/WS/PPC iRMT
AvSport LLC, KLHV
fly@AvSport.org
AvSport.org
facebook.com/SportFlying
SportPilotExaminer.US


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