Who Can Fly Your LSA?

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jnmeade
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Who Can Fly Your LSA?

Postby jnmeade » Fri Jun 08, 2012 11:05 pm

I pay $1406/annual for 100k/1,000K and $90k hull.
To fly my plane, you must be a private pilot. I challenged that and my company said an SP could fly it as named insured. Fill out a flight history.
My agent said another company would write me for $1620 and would let SP fly as long as they had 500 hours and 10 hours make & model.
My friend's policy says an SP can fly if they have a number (I think it is 300 hours) and 5 hours make and model.

My question is what kind of restrictions are you seeing on your policy in regard to other pilots.

So, I asked the agent, "if I'm in the air in my airplane and allow a SP or a non-pilot to fly and they cause an accident, am I covered?" He siad, "no!". We're nto talking about letting someone else take the plane while I'm on vacation, we're talking about a fellow pilot up in the air with me on the same flight.

Now, I know all about the don't ask don't tell part - that is not the point.

Jack Tyler
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Postby Jack Tyler » Sat Jun 09, 2012 8:31 am

All 3 of those policies you describe are consistent with what I found when shopping for a policy 7 months ago. You can accept policy language that has a 'named pilot' category, in which case the Underwriter is reviewing that pilots qualifications and setting specific add'l requirements for that pilot to fly your a/c. And/or you can accept language that is 'broader' in the sense that coverage is provided to a pilot OTHER than a named pilot - generic coverage, if you will - provided certain requirements of the Underwriter are met by all of those unnamed pilots who use your a/c. You can be in town or out of town, that would make no difference.

FWIW - I fly a Part 23 Grumman, so this isn't directly related to the LSA a/c - I shopped carrier reputation first, then language and broker, and my policy offers both 'name pilot' and unnamed pilot coverage, but with somewhat higher minimums for the unnamed category simply because there is no upfront review by the Underwriter. The policy premium for this 'two types of pilot' coverage was competitive (same cost) with the other quotes I received, and lower than some.
Jack
Flying in/out KBZN, Bozeman MT in a Grumman Tiger
Do you fly for recreational purposes? Please visit http://www.theraf.org

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drseti
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Re: Who Can Fly Your LSA?

Postby drseti » Sat Jun 09, 2012 9:50 am

jnmeade wrote:My question is what kind of restrictions are you seeing on your policy in regard to other pilots.


My policy (through EAA/Falcon) is quite generous in this regard. Any pilot (PP, SP, student pilot) that I authorize to fly it is covered, with a $1000 deductible. But mine is a flight school/commercial policy, and I pay dearly for that flexibility, as compared to an individual owner policy. My premium started out over $5k, has come down a little each year, and is now around $4600.

I'm also a named insured on a student's Ercoupe, because his insurance doesn't have a CFI open pilot clause!
The opinions posted are those of one CFI, and do not necessarily represent the FAA or its lawyers.
Prof. H. Paul Shuch, Ph.D., CFII, LSRM-A/GL/WS/PPC, iRMT
AvSport of Lock Haven
fly@AvSport.org
http://AvSport.org
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Hambone
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Re: Who Can Fly Your LSA?

Postby Hambone » Fri May 06, 2016 11:34 am

drseti wrote:
jnmeade wrote:My question is what kind of restrictions are you seeing on your policy in regard to other pilots.


My policy (through EAA/Falcon) is quite generous in this regard. Any pilot (PP, SP, student pilot) that I authorize to fly it is covered, with a $1000 deductible. But mine is a flight school/commercial policy, and I pay dearly for that flexibility, as compared to an individual owner policy. My premium started out over $5k, has come down a little each year, and is now around $4600.

I'm also a named insured on a student's Ercoupe, because his insurance doesn't have a CFI open pilot clause!


Paul

If I set up business as a self-employed Sport Pilot CFI, will I need a full flight school/commercial policy? $5K a year is certainly expensive for a part-time self-employed instructor!

3Dreaming
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Re: Who Can Fly Your LSA?

Postby 3Dreaming » Fri May 06, 2016 2:29 pm

I'm not Paul, but the answer is likely yes. If you insure the airplane and are using the airplane for a commercial operation, even if it is part time, the insurance company will likely rate it as commercial.

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drseti
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Re: Who Can Fly Your LSA?

Postby drseti » Fri May 06, 2016 3:31 pm

I am Paul, and unfortunately, I agree with Tom. If you give instruction and charge for it, you are a commercial operation and need commercial insurance.

One way to save a few bucks is to only give dual, and not let anyone else solo your plane. This is what Jack Brown's Seaplane Base does with its Cubs on floats. You can get instruction in them, and even get your seaplane rating in them (no solo time is required for a category/class add-on), but for insurance reasons, they won't rent you one, even after you have the rating.
The opinions posted are those of one CFI, and do not necessarily represent the FAA or its lawyers.
Prof. H. Paul Shuch, Ph.D., CFII, LSRM-A/GL/WS/PPC, iRMT
AvSport of Lock Haven
fly@AvSport.org
http://AvSport.org
http://facebook.com/SportFlying

Merlinspop
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Re: Who Can Fly Your LSA?

Postby Merlinspop » Fri May 06, 2016 6:43 pm

drseti wrote:I am Paul, and unfortunately, I agree with Tom. If you give instruction and charge for it, you are a commercial operation and need commercial insurance.

One way to save a few bucks is to only give dual, and not let anyone else solo your plane. This is what Jack Brown's Seaplane Base does with its Cubs on floats. You can get instruction in them, and even get your seaplane rating in them (no solo time is required for a category/class add-on), but for insurance reasons, they won't rent you one, even after you have the rating.

Places that give tailwheel endorsements often do the same.
- Bruce

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Hambone
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Re: Who Can Fly Your LSA?

Postby Hambone » Fri May 06, 2016 11:12 pm

drseti wrote:I am Paul, and unfortunately, I agree with Tom. If you give instruction and charge for it, you are a commercial operation and need commercial insurance.

One way to save a few bucks is to only give dual, and not let anyone else solo your plane. This is what Jack Brown's Seaplane Base does with its Cubs on floats. You can get instruction in them, and even get your seaplane rating in them (no solo time is required for a category/class add-on), but for insurance reasons, they won't rent you one, even after you have the rating.

I had planned on renting out. Is this a significant increase in premiums?

What about the solo requirement during the sport pilot course?

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drseti
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Re: Who Can Fly Your LSA?

Postby drseti » Sat May 07, 2016 5:34 am

Solo and rental will probably double your premium. You can maybe mitigate that somewhat by requiring your students to carry renters insurance.
The opinions posted are those of one CFI, and do not necessarily represent the FAA or its lawyers.
Prof. H. Paul Shuch, Ph.D., CFII, LSRM-A/GL/WS/PPC, iRMT
AvSport of Lock Haven
fly@AvSport.org
http://AvSport.org
http://facebook.com/SportFlying

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MrMorden
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Re: Who Can Fly Your LSA?

Postby MrMorden » Mon May 09, 2016 12:37 pm

300 total and 5 in type is what my policy reads for unnamed pilots.
Andy Walker
Athens, GA
Sport Pilot ASEL, LSRI
2007 Flight Design CTSW E-LSA

3Dreaming
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Re: Who Can Fly Your LSA?

Postby 3Dreaming » Mon May 09, 2016 9:55 pm

Mine is any pilot certificate, any total time, no minimum time in type, and my approval.

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MrMorden
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Re: Who Can Fly Your LSA?

Postby MrMorden » Tue May 10, 2016 8:47 am

3Dreaming wrote:Mine is any pilot certificate, any total time, no minimum time in type, and my approval.


Wow, that's nice.

My AIG policy used to read any certificate, no minimum time, with 5hrs in type. It changed at my last renewal. There must have been some claims in the risk pool to precipitate that!
Andy Walker
Athens, GA
Sport Pilot ASEL, LSRI
2007 Flight Design CTSW E-LSA

3Dreaming
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Re: Who Can Fly Your LSA?

Postby 3Dreaming » Tue May 10, 2016 12:40 pm

Andy, I have a commercial policy for my airplanes. In addition to what I stated above, I also have the authority to approve any instructor to give instruction in my planes.

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MrMorden
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Re: Who Can Fly Your LSA?

Postby MrMorden » Tue May 10, 2016 2:02 pm

3Dreaming wrote:Andy, I have a commercial policy for my airplanes. In addition to what I stated above, I also have the authority to approve any instructor to give instruction in my planes.


Ah. Totally different. Your policy is designed with student pilots in mind, clearly.
Andy Walker
Athens, GA
Sport Pilot ASEL, LSRI
2007 Flight Design CTSW E-LSA

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drseti
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Re: Who Can Fly Your LSA?

Postby drseti » Tue May 10, 2016 2:32 pm

Yes, Andy, and Tom and I pay accordingly. :(
The opinions posted are those of one CFI, and do not necessarily represent the FAA or its lawyers.
Prof. H. Paul Shuch, Ph.D., CFII, LSRM-A/GL/WS/PPC, iRMT
AvSport of Lock Haven
fly@AvSport.org
http://AvSport.org
http://facebook.com/SportFlying


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