Sport Only Instructors

Finally, a place for sport pilot instructors and/or wannabees to talk about instructing.

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mhaleem
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Sport Only Instructors

Postby mhaleem » Sun Dec 30, 2012 5:51 pm

Are any sport-only instructors staying busy? Are you happy with your decision to be a sport only instructor or do you have any regrets? I have started down the sport instructor track and would like some feedback from you veterans!!!
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Flocker
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Re: Sport Only Instructors

Postby Flocker » Mon Dec 31, 2012 5:14 pm

mhaleem wrote:Are any sport-only instructors staying busy? Are you happy with your decision to be a sport only instructor or do you have any regrets? I have started down the sport instructor track and would like some feedback from you veterans!!!


Great question. I'd like to hear the group's opinion on this as well.

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drseti
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Re: Sport Only Instructors

Postby drseti » Mon Dec 31, 2012 6:28 pm

I realize it probably sounds discriminatory, but I have only hired Subpart H CFIs for my flight school. This is because some of my students choose to continue on toward the PPL once licensed as Sport Pilots, and want to be able to count all their hours of dual. If FAA acts favorably on the EAA/AOPA/NAFI petition currently before it (which would credit some Subpart K instruction toward higher ratings), I see no reason why I shouldn't hire Subpart K CFIs as well. And frankly, I would pay them the same -- teaching is teaching, and I value all qualified instructors equally (even though, so far, the FAA doesn't).
The opinions posted are those of one CFI, and do not necessarily represent the FAA or its lawyers.
Prof H Paul Shuch
PhD CFII DPE LSRM-A/GL/WS/PPC iRMT
AvSport LLC, KLHV
fly@AvSport.org
AvSport.org
facebook.com/SportFlying
SportPilotExaminer.US

Torque
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Re: Sport Only Instructors

Postby Torque » Tue Jan 01, 2013 8:30 pm

drseti wrote:I realize it probably sounds discriminatory, but I have only hired Subpart H CFIs for my flight school. This is because some of my students choose to continue on toward the PPL once licensed as Sport Pilots, and want to be able to count all their hours of dual. If FAA acts favorably on the EAA/AOPA/NAFI petition currently before it (which would credit some Subpart K instruction toward higher ratings), I see no reason why I shouldn't hire Subpart K CFIs as well. And frankly, I would pay them the same -- teaching is teaching, and I value all qualified instructors equally (even though, so far, the FAA doesn't).



Subpart H is for those looking to further their flying certificates. Subpart K is for those whom just need an LSA certificate to fly thier otherwise fat Ultralight as an N numbered bird but still fly as an ultralight and this pilot does not want any further indorsments but to fly a single seater legally.

Do have have this correct?

Is the training the same? and what about price for such training, is one different from the other or cost the same.

Speaking of cost, I see someone is offering the SP certificate for $2695 in florida. I have spoke with another man whom wants closer to 7 grand for the same certificate.

Anthony

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drseti
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Re: Sport Only Instructors

Postby drseti » Tue Jan 01, 2013 9:07 pm

Torque wrote: Do have have this correct?


Not exactly, Anthony. Section 61 Subpart H is the FAR that defines the requirements to become a traditional flight instructor (what some here have erroneously called a real CFI). Candidates must have a commercial pilot's license, and an instrument rating, and a second class medical. When the Sport Pilot rules were introduced eight years ago, Subpart K was added to Section 61. It defines the requirements for a so-called Sport Pilot instructor (Sport Pilot or above rating, no instrument rating required, no medical required). The first Subpart K instructors were the old ultralight (Part 103) instructors, and they mostly instructed in fat ultralights. But, a subpart K instructor can give instruction toward the Sport Pilot certificate in any category of LSA (S-LSA, E-LSA, E-AB meeting LSA rules, certified aircraft meeting LSA rules), and any class of LSA (airplane, glider, weight shift control, powered parachute, gyroplane, lighter-than-air) for which he or she is rated.

As the rules stand now, a Subpart K CFI can only give instruction toward the Sport Pilot rating. This may change in the future. A Supbart H CFI can give instruction in any category or class for which he or she is rated, toward Sport, Recreational, Private, Commercial, or in some cases even ATP ratings. But, there's nothing to prevent a Subpart H CFI from instructing in an N-numbered fat ultralight, except for his or her unwillingness to do so.

Is the training the same?


The training is defined by the Practical Test Standards (PTS). Any CFI, whether supbart H or K, has to train Sport Pilots to the same standards. And, many of the PTS requirements are common to both the Sport and Private ratings, which is the thrust of the argument that some Subpart K instruction should count toward the Private.

and what about price for such training, is one different from the other or cost the same.


There's no simple answer to that. In a free-market economy, any flight school (and any independent CFI) is free to set prices as he, she, or it sees fit. Some Subpart K instructors choose to charge less than their Supbart H counterparts. Some flight instructors (of both kinds) choose to give their services away, while others (also of both kinds) charge a premium for their services. It is the skills, abilities, location, and reputation of the instructor that determine what someone may or not be willing to pay for his or her services.

Speaking of cost, I see someone is offering the SP certificate for $2695 in florida. I have spoke with another man whom wants closer to 7 grand for the same certificate.


You need to take all advertised prices with a healthy dose of salt. There are few flight schools that will guarantee that you can get a license for any particular flat price. Flight training is (or at least should be) highly individualized. Costs vary depending upon geography, and are influenced by such factors as local climate, airspace, and overhead at a particular airport. Different kinds of aircraft (i.e., weight shift vs. powered parachute vs. airplane vs. seaplane) require different training hours, and skills. Each student learns at his or her own rate. Some advertised prices include books, supplies, ground school, and maybe even the cost of the knowledge and practical tests. Others cover just the cost of the airplane rental and instructor. Some include taxes, fees, and fuel in the advertised price, while others don't. And, regardless of what the FAA may require, nobody will be able to predict in advance just how much training a given student may need, or desire. Maybe you will start your flight training with so much previous knowledge, exposure, and experience that you actually complete in 15 hours of dual and 5 hours of solo flight -- but, perhaps not. I've had students who actually needed twice that much training.

That said, the best way to find out what it costs to get licensed (in the kind of aircraft you want to fly) is to interview some of their graduates. A reputable school will always give you a list of references to call. Any school that won't do this is, IMHO, one to avoid.

FWIW, my advertised price for the SP license in a modern, glass-panel S-LSA, including all flight and ground instruction, taxes, fees, fuel, books, and training materials (but excluding written and practical test fees,which I neither set nor collect) is $5000. I've had a few students come in at this figure. Most go over, by anywhere from a few hundred to perhaps 1000 bucks.
The opinions posted are those of one CFI, and do not necessarily represent the FAA or its lawyers.
Prof H Paul Shuch
PhD CFII DPE LSRM-A/GL/WS/PPC iRMT
AvSport LLC, KLHV
fly@AvSport.org
AvSport.org
facebook.com/SportFlying
SportPilotExaminer.US

Texasautogyro
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Re: Sport Only Instructors

Postby Texasautogyro » Tue Jan 01, 2013 10:59 pm

I spent one year as a Gyro Sport CFI and flew over 300 training hrs. This is partly because its a very small group of CFIs about 25 in the nation. Now I am a full Gyro CFI and Fixed wing and have flow 600 hrs in gyro training this last year 2012.

some of my stuff is on http://www.usautogyro.com

Torque
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Re: Sport Only Instructors

Postby Torque » Wed Jan 02, 2013 6:10 am

drseti: You explained that great, thanks alot.
When I took my Ultralight training the instructor wanted to turn me loose he said I was good to go.I told him I needed more time to relax. I flew another 3 hrs with him. Those 3 hrs made a big difference.
Thanks again and we need more CFI's like whom post on here..keep up the good work....

Anthony

Torque
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Re: Sport Only Instructors

Postby Torque » Wed Jan 02, 2013 6:57 am

Texasautogyro: I sent you an e-mail.

Helen
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Re: Sport Only Instructors

Postby Helen » Sun Jan 06, 2013 8:53 pm

I have two Subpart K instructors on our staff of 14 and they are two of the busiest instructors we have. I'll likely be looking to hire another instructor or two come spring. K and H instructors both invited to apply.
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Helen Woods
Chesapeake Sport Pilot
Quality Flight Training and Rentals
Factory Authorized SeaRey and RV-12 Training and Sales Center
http://www.chesapeakesportpilot.com

restlinbaum
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Re: Sport Only Instructors

Postby restlinbaum » Mon Feb 04, 2013 11:59 pm

Comes in spurts but it is picking up. :lol:
Ray Estlinbaum, CFI-S

jnmeade
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Re: Sport Only Instructors

Postby jnmeade » Tue Feb 05, 2013 12:19 am

Paul,

Help me out on the medical for a CFI. You say: "Subpart H is the FAR that defines the requirements to become a traditional flight instructor (what some here have erroneously called a real CFI). Candidates must have a commercial pilot's license, and an instrument rating, and a second class medical."

I have been looking for the requirement to hold a second class physical and I'm not finding it. 61.183 talks about the commercial and instrument rating or ATP. Here is what I've found on medicals. As I read it, the Subpart H CFI must hold a third class medical to be PIC in a non-LSA equivalent airplane but no medical is needed if the CFI is not PIC. (In other words, a CFI with no medical can give a flight review or other training but no hood work or student work if the student can't be PIC.) A CFI with no medical but with a drivers license can instruct on the same basis as a Subpart K instructor. I can't find anything that says the Subpart H CFI has to hold a second class physical.

61.23 Medical certificates: Requirement and duration.

(a) Operations requiring a medical certificate. Except as provided in paragraphs (b) and (c) of this section, a person—

(1) Must hold a first-class medical certificate:

(i) When exercising the privileges of an airline transport pilot certificate; or

(ii) If that person has reached his or her 60th birthday and serves as a pilot in 14 CFR part 121 operations. Notwithstanding the provisions of § 61.23(d)(1)(iii), that person's first-class medical certificate expires, for 14 CFR part 121 operations, at the end of the last day of the 6th month after the month of the date of examination shown on the medical certificate.

(2) Must hold at least a second-class medical certificate when exercising the privileges of a commercial pilot certificate; or

(3) Must hold at least a third-class medical certificate—

(i) When exercising the privileges of a private pilot certificate;

(ii) When exercising the privileges of a recreational pilot certificate;

(iii) When exercising the privileges of a student pilot certificate;

(iv) When exercising the privileges of a flight instructor certificate and acting as the pilot in command;

(v) When exercising the privileges of a flight instructor certificate and serving as a required pilot flight crewmember;

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drseti
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Re: Sport Only Instructors

Postby drseti » Tue Feb 05, 2013 12:31 am

jnmeade wrote:. I can't find anything that says the Subpart H CFI has to hold a second class physical


that is correct, Jim. But, bear in mind that a Subpart H CFI must hold a Commercial Pilot ceetificate, and one must hold a Second Class medical to take the Comml practical test. So, what I should have said is one must have held a Second Class to become a Subpart H CFI.
The opinions posted are those of one CFI, and do not necessarily represent the FAA or its lawyers.
Prof H Paul Shuch
PhD CFII DPE LSRM-A/GL/WS/PPC iRMT
AvSport LLC, KLHV
fly@AvSport.org
AvSport.org
facebook.com/SportFlying
SportPilotExaminer.US

KSCessnaDriver
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Re: Sport Only Instructors

Postby KSCessnaDriver » Tue Feb 05, 2013 12:55 am

drseti wrote:
jnmeade wrote:. I can't find anything that says the Subpart H CFI has to hold a second class physical


that is correct, Jim. But, bear in mind that a Subpart H CFI must hold a Commercial Pilot ceetificate, and one must hold a Second Class medical to take the Comml practical test. So, what I should have said is one must have held a Second Class to become a Subpart H CFI.


Negative. They must hold a 2nd class medical to act as a commercial pilot. You can take the ride with a 3rd class medical. You can take an ATP ride with a 3rd class medical.
KSCessnaDriver (ATP MEL, Commerical LTA-Airship/SEL, Private SES, CFI/CFII)
LSA's flown: Remos G3, Flight Design CTSW, Aeronca L-16, Jabiru J170

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drseti
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Re: Sport Only Instructors

Postby drseti » Tue Feb 05, 2013 1:04 am

That must have changed, then. When I took my Commercial (admittedly, decades ago), I was required to show my Secind Class to the DPE in order to take the checkride.
The opinions posted are those of one CFI, and do not necessarily represent the FAA or its lawyers.
Prof H Paul Shuch
PhD CFII DPE LSRM-A/GL/WS/PPC iRMT
AvSport LLC, KLHV
fly@AvSport.org
AvSport.org
facebook.com/SportFlying
SportPilotExaminer.US

jnmeade
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Re: Sport Only Instructors

Postby jnmeade » Tue Feb 05, 2013 9:59 am

Yes, you need at least a third class medical to take "the ride" but see below for when you can act at any level, even ATP, with no medical.

61.39 Prerequisites for practical tests.

(a) Except as provided in paragraphs (b) and (c) of this section, to be eligible for a practical test for a certificate or rating issued under this part, an applicant must:

(4) Hold at least a third-class medical certificate, if a medical certificate is required;

(but see below)

61.23 Medical certificates: Requirement and duration.

(b) Operations not requiring a medical certificate. A person is not required to hold a medical certificate—

(8) When taking a practical test or a proficiency check for a certificate, rating, authorization or operating privilege conducted in a glider, balloon, flight simulator, or flight training device; or


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