Stirring up trouble

[iagflyer]

Ok guys, here's your chance to be heard by the FAA. Read below concerning the request for comments and then visit the link. If you REALLY want your voices heard I would suggest starting a grass roots movement and developing a consensus on what SP rules need to be modified before posting comments on the web site, in other words, if a whole bunch of people say the same rule needs to be amended it will get more attention. But... you'd better get moving the RFC ends Jan. 14th.

Go to http://www.regulations.gov
and follow the instructions for sending your
comments electronically.
[Docket No. FAA-2007-29291]
Request for Comments

As part of its ongoing plan for periodic regulatory reviews, the
FAA is requesting the public identify three regulations, in priority
order, that it believes we should amend or eliminate.
Our goal is to identify regulations that impose undue regulatory
burden; are no longer necessary; or overlay, duplicate, or conflict
with other Federal regulations. In order to focus on areas of greatest
interest, and to effectively manage agency resources, the FAA asks that
commenters responding to this notice limit their input to three issues
they consider most urgent, and to list them in priority order.
The FAA will review the issues addressed by the commenters against
its regulatory agenda and rulemaking program efforts and adjust its
regulatory priorities consistent with its statutory responsibilities.
At the end of this process, the FAA will publish a summary and general
disposition of comments and indicate, where appropriate, how we will
adjust our regulatory priorities.
Also, we request the public provide any specific suggestions where
rules could be developed as performance-based rather than prescriptive,
and any specific plain-language that might be used, and provide
suggested language on how those rules should be written.

[Cub flyer]

Wow, Thanks

Hmmm. Three wishes.

I'll try to work up something.



If we all agree and support the same changes there may be a hope. If enough supporters are out there then AOPA and EAA have to go along.

[ka7eej]

WE NEED TO DO THIS. I WENT TO THE SITE AND READ THE COMMENTS THERE ..THE BALOON GUYS HAVE LEFT SEVERAL COMMENTS.

MAKE YOUR CONCERNS KNOWN.....PLEASE!!!

[Cub flyer]

Sent in my three wishes. Actually there were four but I snuck the last one in.

1. Allow sport pilots to fly Standard category airplanes with a maximum of two occupants over 1320 lbs. Maximum of four seats. Using POH numbers the airplane must meet all other LSA configuration and performance rules.


2. Increase the LSA limit to 1650 lbs. This would allow stronger structure and less critical powerplants. More useful load.

3. Allow Sport Pilots to operate aircraft with electric motors and amend Part 103 to allow the 5 gallons fuel to be included as empty weight for electric powered Ultralights.

This would give electric ultralights a 30lb empty weight increase.

Currently the batteries count as empty weight. but a gasoline machine the 5 gallons fuel does not.

[nosehair]

The weight limit is to keep down the amount of damage that can be done to others in the event of an out-of-control crash into the public.
No medical= more liability by the FAA for certifying you to become a public danger.

The limits set for SP have nothing to do with skill or pilot ability, it is about public liability with the mass and potential danger to the public with the machine. That's why glider pilots don't need medicals. A glider doesn't weigh much and cannot go diving full throttle into a house. If you want to move up - get a medical and a Private, or a Recreational. That's how it is designed.

[Cub flyer]

Yes but most new High performance LSA airplanes carry the same amount of fuel as a Cessna 150, Cessna 140, Luscombe 8E, 415 D Ercoupe, Citabria, Piper tripacer etc.

These airplanes make the LSA rules in every way except weight.

I don't think there will be any difference in impact damage between these and a modern LSA except the ultralight types.

[Cub flyer]

The Taifun 17E motor glider is:

1372 lbs empty weight
1874 lbs gross weight

holds 23.6 gallons and cruises at 110 kts

Has tricycle retractable gear and can be flown by a

glider certificated pilot with no medical......


Even if a private pilot fails their medical they can get a glider rating and fly this airplane.

But they can't fly as a sport pilot. Doesn't make sense to me.

[leithalweapon]

One thing about LSA that has totaly backfired in my opinion is the misconception that LSA will reduce the cost of flying. IT IS STILL VERY EXPENSIVE. The cost to rent an LSA plane is more than a 152 and equivelent or more than a 172. Also, it has driven the price of the existing GA aircraft that qualify as LSA through the roof.

I hear a lot about not having to have a third class medical, only a drivers liscense. Most people that can't get a third class medical are so racked with medical bills that a new LSA is totaly unrealistic. In my opinion this only helps older retired people that have high blood pressure as the reason for not being able to pass a physical.

Bottom line, the new LSA are way to expensive and have almost guaranteed that younger pilots can not afford them. Nothing like looking out for the future of aviation.

[MikeM]

Actually I think that the LSA rules have made flying more affordable. Right now I'm training in a brand new light sport aircraft- a Flight Design CT. The cost to get my sport pilot license will be approximately half what it would cost to get my private ticket. When I get my license I will be able to rent the CT for $80 an hour. Brand new airplane, liquid-cooled engine, 4 GPH fuel burn at cruise and it's got a Garmin 496 with XM weather. Find me a Cessna 152 or 172 that can match that for similar money. And it's got a payload big enough to haul my big butt around.

No, I can't afford to buy a brand new LSA right now, but I probably wouldn't be able to buy a 172 or Piper Cherokee either. I realize that not everyone has access to a new LSA like I do but that may change as the market expands. The LSA rules are not perfect. I don't like the idea that the only LSA compliant airplane I could afford would be a tube and fabric antique. (My apologies to the fine people who fly those wonderfull airplanes ).

My brother has asked if I plan to pursue my private pilot license after I get my light sport license. I don't plan on it right away but it will probably happen. At this time I just want to be able to get into an airplane and head out for a fly-in breakfast and my light sport license will allow me to do that.




Hi Larry!

[CharlieTango]

One thing about LSA that has totaly backfired in my opinion is the misconception that LSA will reduce the cost of flying. IT IS STILL VERY EXPENSIVE. The cost to rent an LSA plane is more than a 152 and equivelent or more than a 172. Also, it has driven the price of the existing GA aircraft that qualify as LSA through the roof.

I hear a lot about not having to have a third class medical, only a drivers liscense. Most people that can't get a third class medical are so racked with medical bills that a new LSA is totaly unrealistic. In my opinion this only helps older retired people that have high blood pressure as the reason for not being able to pass a physical.

Bottom line, the new LSA are way to expensive and have almost guaranteed that younger pilots can not afford them. Nothing like looking out for the future of aviation.

i'm going to disagree as well.

you are seeing things from your own perspective and that is limiting.

i fly and own a flight design ctsw. hangar is cheaper, insurance a little more than my old skyhawk.

purchase price is more but to date it has been a good investment and i could get as much as all of my money back after 300 hours.

operating costs are really low. the ctsw is a great cross country plane and i easily do 120+ kts TAS.

bottom line, this is the first plane i have owned with a 4cycle engine that i can afford to fly 5 days a week.

[leithalweapon]

your right I am seeing it from my point of view.

To MikeM, I say your not even liscensed yet. More than likely you will eventually become a private pilot.

To the guy who has already owned a skyhawk, I say you have already owned a Skyhawk and have equity in it.

Do either of you have medical problems that keep you from flying non-LSA?

Also I think only 20hrs. for LSA is not enough to be safe. You may think you're safe, but lets be honest it takes time to learn the skills required. Let's face it flying can be leathal. Just ask Steve Fosset!

[CharlieTango]

To the guy who has already owned a skyhawk, I say you have already owned a Skyhawk and have equity in it.

Do either of you have medical problems that keep you from flying non-LSA?

Also I think only 20hrs. for LSA is not enough to be safe. You may think you're safe, but lets be honest it takes time to learn the skills required. Let's face it flying can be leathal. Just ask Steve Fosset!

i sold the skyhawk, it had a 180hp stc but it wasn't fun. my ctsw is far more fun to fly locally and much more fun to fly cross country. i stopped flying altogether when i owned the skyhawk.

i would say most of us ppl's flying lsa with driver's license could get a medical but it is a hassle and perhaps a worry as well.

there's a broad range of challenges presented by various lsa and on the low end 20 hours is fine. you also need endorsements on top of the 20 hours and for the most part you won't get one if you aren't ready. as long as the cfi or lsa instructor are honest and qualified the system works fine.

another limiting factor is the intimidating nature of your 1st check ride. most people are nervous about how they will perform and want to be ready.

[MikeM]

I know there is a consensus out there that 20 hours is not a safe minimum for getting a pilot's license of any sort and I don't have the experience (or desire) to argue about it. I do think that it's true that a flight instructor is not going to allow anyone to solo without being satisfied that they are safe and competent.

The sport pilot rules have established minimums that the FAA feels are adequate for flight training. Only time will tell if they are right or wrong. All I know is that the sport pilot license finally motivated me to go out and learn to fly.

[leithalweapon]

CharlieTango your right about the medical being a worry.

I am a 7 year leukemia survivor. It took my 18 months of medical testing and thousands of dollars to get my medical back. I made the mistake of being to honest on my medical application. When I answered the question "List all medications you have EVER been on." I listed an anti-depressant that I had been on during my treatment. I hadn't been on the medication for 2 years, but the question said EVER. It lead to a big expensive problem with the FAA. The reason I wanted the medical back was because the new LSA's were just to expensive to own and the existing GA planes that qualify have trippled in price. I can buy a 150 pretty cheap, plus, they are easy to find.

MikeM, I don't mean to be harsh, but When I had only 20hrs. I was still a little white nuckled. The problem I see is this. I learned a lot of valuable skills after 20hrs. while the instructor was still in the plane. I don't think the FAA should allow a passenger to fly with a pilot that has only 20hrs. in an aircraft and even less as pilot in command. You can't pull over and get out of an airplane when your lost or having an emergency. Unfortunately, most people have to make a mistake in the cockpit in order to figure out why it happened and how to prevent it from happening again. Just my opinion, again I'm not trying to put anybody at fault. After all that said, when you finally get your liscense it will be a great acomplishment in your life.

Have you guys ever heard the saying--- Don't ask a guy if he is a pilot. If he is he will tell you. I he is not you will just embarass him.

[SP_Laser]

If you want to get technical about it, a passenger could fly with a motorglider pilot with 10 hrs.

In fact you could take lessons from a sport pilot motor glider CFI who has 33 hours (8+25) and never done a cross country, or a spin. Or ever spoken on a radio.
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