1320 limit

Constructive topics of interest related to aviation that do not match the other section descriptions below (as long as it is somewhat related to aviation, flying, learning to fly, sport pilot, light sport aircraft, etc.). Please, advertisements for Viagra will be promptly deleted!"

Moderator: drseti

User avatar
Scooper
Posts: 397
Joined: Sun Jul 08, 2007 12:29 pm
Location: Santa Rosa, CA

Re: 1320 limit

Post by Scooper »

FastEddieB wrote:*Maybe we could call that one “The Bernath Principle”. And sadly in his case we got to see the end result of a certain mindset.
Eddie, there are probably a lot of members who recently joined here and are unfamiliar with the "Fear not. I shall never be mentioned in a NTSB report." Daniel A. Bernath story.

http://www.sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=2574

https://www.nbc-2.com/story/37320899/sm ... d-one-dead

https://app.ntsb.gov/pdfgenerator/Repor ... m&IType=FA
Stan Cooper (K4DRD)
Private Pilot ASEL LSRI
Image
Experimental AMD CH601XLi-B Zodiac LSA N601KE (KSTS)
TimTaylor
Posts: 1594
Joined: Tue Feb 21, 2017 7:17 pm

Re: 1320 limit

Post by TimTaylor »

He must have had a heart attack or something. Planes don't just fall out of the sky for no reason.
Retired from flying.
User avatar
FastEddieB
Posts: 2880
Joined: Wed Jan 07, 2009 9:33 pm
Location: Lenoir City, TN/Mineral Bluff, GA

Re: 1320 limit

Post by FastEddieB »

TimTaylor wrote:He must have had a heart attack or something. Planes don't just fall out of the sky for no reason.
Hardly the first thing that came to my mind!
Fast Eddie B.
Sky Arrow 600 E-LSA • N467SA
CFI, CFII, CFIME
[email protected]
TimTaylor
Posts: 1594
Joined: Tue Feb 21, 2017 7:17 pm

Re: 1320 limit

Post by TimTaylor »

FastEddieB wrote:
TimTaylor wrote:He must have had a heart attack or something. Planes don't just fall out of the sky for no reason.
Hardly the first thing that came to my mind!
Yes, but I didn't want to go there.
Retired from flying.
User avatar
ShawnM
Posts: 813
Joined: Sat Nov 11, 2017 9:59 pm
Location: Clearwater, FL / KZPH

Re: 1320 limit

Post by ShawnM »

1320 is the limit and should never be exceeded, follow the rules, they are there for a reason. If some moron wants to load his LSA with a MTOW of 1320 pounds to 1500+ pounds then he/she is just an idiot and NO ONE should fly with them nor should they endanger others by taking them along. Not to mention the danger to people on the ground. Geez.
chumash
Posts: 10
Joined: Sun Dec 31, 2017 6:26 pm

Re: 1320 limit

Post by chumash »

Hello, I'm new here, as well as a "new pilot in the making" as I just passed my FAA written and will be starting flight training in 2 weeks hopefully. My question about the 1320 lb limit concerns the TAF Sling2, which is what I will be training in. The Sling2 is maxed out in other parts of the world at 1540 lbs and is one of the reasons I am looking at it as a purchase, in case the max weight for LSA increases,I would possibly be able to take advantage of the increase.

I understand the reasoning behind not flying over design limits for LSA designed for 1320lbs, and am not willing to fly over the 1320 lb weight in a current Sling2. My question is if the weight changes do occur, would the Sling be safe at 1540, since it's designed for that weight, or does being "LSA" preclude that?
User avatar
Warmi
Posts: 1230
Joined: Sun Oct 16, 2016 5:35 pm
Location: Frankfort, IL

Re: 1320 limit

Post by Warmi »

TAF ( the manufacturer of Sling 2 planes ) explicitly said that they will allow owners of LSA slings to increase their gross limits to 1540 if the weight change does occur, similar assurances were given by Britstell representatives.

How it all is going to work out , it is hard to say... but certainly you are better off owning a plane that has this option available.
Flying Sting S4 ( N184WA ) out of Illinois
User avatar
drseti
Posts: 7227
Joined: Sat Nov 28, 2009 6:42 pm
Location: Lock Haven PA
Contact:

Re: 1320 limit

Post by drseti »

Remember that, at this point, any weight increase is just speculation. The FAA has not yet issued a Notice of Proposed Rulemaking. If and when they do, it takes 2 years minimum to go through the process of publication, public comments, reply comments, revisions, publication of those, comments and replies to the revisions, possible further revisions, and enactment. The Sport CFI revision took six years from petition to enactment. The Basic Med process took ten!

We have no idea what the final rule will be, or when. It may apply only to new production aircraft, or it might include existing ones. We just don't know. So, any purchasing decision that factors in a revision to FARs is probably ill-advised.
The opinions posted are those of one CFI, and do not necessarily represent the FAA or its lawyers.
Prof H Paul Shuch
PhD CFII DPE LSRM-A/GL/WS/PPC iRMT
AvSport LLC, KLHV
[email protected]
AvSport.org
facebook.com/SportFlying
SportPilotExaminer.US
TimTaylor
Posts: 1594
Joined: Tue Feb 21, 2017 7:17 pm

Re: 1320 limit

Post by TimTaylor »

chumash wrote:Hello, I'm new here, as well as a "new pilot in the making" as I just passed my FAA written and will be starting flight training in 2 weeks hopefully. My question about the 1320 lb limit concerns the TAF Sling2, which is what I will be training in. The Sling2 is maxed out in other parts of the world at 1540 lbs and is one of the reasons I am looking at it as a purchase, in case the max weight for LSA increases,I would possibly be able to take advantage of the increase.

I understand the reasoning behind not flying over design limits for LSA designed for 1320lbs, and am not willing to fly over the 1320 lb weight in a current Sling2. My question is if the weight changes do occur, would the Sling be safe at 1540, since it's designed for that weight, or does being "LSA" preclude that?
If the definition of LSA changes in the future, the aircraft manufacturer would need to recertify the aircraft to that new definition, if they chose to. There is more than max gross weight involved. Unless and until they did that, you would still be limited to the current definition of LSA for which the aircraft was certified.
Retired from flying.
3Dreaming
Posts: 3107
Joined: Sun Jan 10, 2010 6:13 pm
Location: noble, IL USA

Re: 1320 limit

Post by 3Dreaming »

TimTaylor wrote:
chumash wrote:Hello, I'm new here, as well as a "new pilot in the making" as I just passed my FAA written and will be starting flight training in 2 weeks hopefully. My question about the 1320 lb limit concerns the TAF Sling2, which is what I will be training in. The Sling2 is maxed out in other parts of the world at 1540 lbs and is one of the reasons I am looking at it as a purchase, in case the max weight for LSA increases,I would possibly be able to take advantage of the increase.

I understand the reasoning behind not flying over design limits for LSA designed for 1320lbs, and am not willing to fly over the 1320 lb weight in a current Sling2. My question is if the weight changes do occur, would the Sling be safe at 1540, since it's designed for that weight, or does being "LSA" preclude that?
If the definition of LSA changes in the future, the aircraft manufacturer would need to recertify the aircraft to that new definition, if they chose to. There is more than max gross weight involved. Unless and until they did that, you would still be limited to the current definition of LSA for which the aircraft was certified.
At this point no one knows what a manufacturer would have to do. Until the final rule is published one can only guess what will be required.
TimTaylor
Posts: 1594
Joined: Tue Feb 21, 2017 7:17 pm

Re: 1320 limit

Post by TimTaylor »

TimTaylor wrote:
chumash wrote:Hello, I'm new here, as well as a "new pilot in the making" as I just passed my FAA written and will be starting flight training in 2 weeks hopefully. My question about the 1320 lb limit concerns the TAF Sling2, which is what I will be training in. The Sling2 is maxed out in other parts of the world at 1540 lbs and is one of the reasons I am looking at it as a purchase, in case the max weight for LSA increases,I would possibly be able to take advantage of the increase.

I understand the reasoning behind not flying over design limits for LSA designed for 1320lbs, and am not willing to fly over the 1320 lb weight in a current Sling2. My question is if the weight changes do occur, would the Sling be safe at 1540, since it's designed for that weight, or does being "LSA" preclude that?
If the definition of LSA changes in the future, the aircraft manufacturer would need to recertify the aircraft to that new definition, if they chose to. There is more than max gross weight involved. Unless and until they did that, you would still be limited to the current definition of LSA for which the aircraft was certified.
Caution: this is my opinion only. Read at your own risk.

This is my educated guess on what will be required if a manufacturer wants an existing LSA to be legal to fly under a new LSA definition. That is, if any new LSA definition allows higher gross weight or higher stall speeds, etc. There would likely be some existing LSA that could be certified to the new definition and some that could not.

In my opinion, any standard certificated aircraft that meet a new LSA definition would be legal to fly once the FAA verified such. For instance, if a C150 (as certified) fell within a new definition, I assume it would be added to the list of standard certificated aircraft that can be flown as LSA.

I doubt it would be as simple as a manufacturer sending out a letter saying our aircraft meet the new LSA definition, so have at it. Although, anything is possible.

This is strictly my opinion. Repeat...this is my opinion.
Retired from flying.
chumash
Posts: 10
Joined: Sun Dec 31, 2017 6:26 pm

Re: 1320 limit

Post by chumash »

Thanks for all the info. I know any change is a long way off and may never happen. I have the Sling2 on my short list because of the 1540lb design weight, and if the FAA allows an increase, then this would be a perfect airplane for us. I need to get mt SPL first, but want to be as informed as possible to finally make a purchase.
User avatar
Warmi
Posts: 1230
Joined: Sun Oct 16, 2016 5:35 pm
Location: Frankfort, IL

Re: 1320 limit

Post by Warmi »

chumash wrote:Thanks for all the info. I know any change is a long way off and may never happen. I have the Sling2 on my short list because of the 1540lb design weight, and if the FAA allows an increase, then this would be a perfect airplane for us. I need to get mt SPL first, but want to be as informed as possible to finally make a purchase.
Sling 2 is a lovely plane , 1540 lbs or not :D

It was my initial choice but I ultimately chickened out partly due to the price ( 160k for a new one and no lightly used ones on the market) and partly due to the fact that at that time (2017) there were only a dozen or so planes in the US - I want to have a reasonably represented plane with proven record of availability of parts etc ...

Things have changed since then and TAF Sling 2 and 4 planes are selling pretty good ( for an LSA ) , they have active dealerships etc ... things are looking up for them.
Flying Sting S4 ( N184WA ) out of Illinois
Sling 2 Pilot
Posts: 317
Joined: Wed Jan 17, 2018 4:53 pm

Re: 1320 limit

Post by Sling 2 Pilot »

chumash wrote:Hello, I'm new here, as well as a "new pilot in the making" as I just passed my FAA written and will be starting flight training in 2 weeks hopefully. My question about the 1320 lb limit concerns the TAF Sling2, which is what I will be training in. The Sling2 is maxed out in other parts of the world at 1540 lbs and is one of the reasons I am looking at it as a purchase, in case the max weight for LSA increases,I would possibly be able to take advantage of the increase.

I understand the reasoning behind not flying over design limits for LSA designed for 1320lbs, and am not willing to fly over the 1320 lb weight in a current Sling2. My question is if the weight changes do occur, would the Sling be safe at 1540, since it's designed for that weight, or does being "LSA" preclude that?
As Warmi stated, existing Sling 2 LSA’s are all built the same. The factory has already stated they embrace the change if and when it comes for existing aircraft. Until that time comes, if you fly in the USA, it’s 1320 until the change, unless you’re EAB.
TimTaylor
Posts: 1594
Joined: Tue Feb 21, 2017 7:17 pm

Re: 1320 limit

Post by TimTaylor »

Sling 2 Pilot wrote:
chumash wrote:Hello, I'm new here, as well as a "new pilot in the making" as I just passed my FAA written and will be starting flight training in 2 weeks hopefully. My question about the 1320 lb limit concerns the TAF Sling2, which is what I will be training in. The Sling2 is maxed out in other parts of the world at 1540 lbs and is one of the reasons I am looking at it as a purchase, in case the max weight for LSA increases,I would possibly be able to take advantage of the increase.

I understand the reasoning behind not flying over design limits for LSA designed for 1320lbs, and am not willing to fly over the 1320 lb weight in a current Sling2. My question is if the weight changes do occur, would the Sling be safe at 1540, since it's designed for that weight, or does being "LSA" preclude that?
As Warmi stated, existing Sling 2 LSA’s are all built the same. The factory has already stated they embrace the change if and when it comes for existing aircraft. Until that time comes, if you fly in the USA, it’s 1320 until the change, unless you’re EAB.
And have a Private Pilot certificate and 3rd class medical or Basic Med.
Retired from flying.
Post Reply