ADSB-B in and out

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ShawnM
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Re: ADSB-B in and out

Postby ShawnM » Tue Apr 24, 2018 10:32 pm

Warmi wrote:Radios are just another layer of safety , which by itself doesn’t t guarantee anything but layer enough of them and you will improve your chances.
In this day and age of $150 portable radios I think there is no excuse to fly without a radio.


Very well said, thank you Warmi.

Maybe the person WITHOUT the radio feels safe but those of us WITH a radio may not. We have no clue what your intentions are. When I’m approaching an airport and announcing my intentions everyone knows where I am and what my intentions are and can plan accordingly. When you come out of nowhere without a radio and surprise us now OUR workload just increased. Not only are we trying to fly the plane and communicate with other pilots, now we have this yo-yo without a radio and have no clue what you’re doing or where you’re going.

Flying already comes with inherent risks, why increase them?

I know, so does driving a car and walking down the street but we’re talking about FLYING. Why not make it as safe as you can?

For those of you with countless hours without a radio, good for you.

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drseti
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Re: ADSB-B in and out

Postby drseti » Tue Apr 24, 2018 10:45 pm

Just remember, folks, that as great as radios are, they have yet to invent one which develops lift.
The opinions posted are those of one CFI, and do not necessarily represent the FAA or its lawyers.
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ShawnM
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Re: ADSB-B in and out

Postby ShawnM » Wed Apr 25, 2018 12:33 am

drseti wrote:Just remember, folks, that as great as radios are, they have yet to invent one which develops lift.


I’m not so sure about that, when I pulled out my old King radio, that I used to communicate my intentions with other pilots and controllers, I threw it across the hangar and it seemed to generate a little lift during that flight. :mrgreen:

But as you know what goes up .............

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MrMorden
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Re: ADSB-B in and out

Postby MrMorden » Wed Apr 25, 2018 7:44 am

ShawnM wrote:Maybe the person WITHOUT the radio feels safe but those of us WITH a radio may not. We have no clue what your intentions are. When I’m approaching an airport and announcing my intentions everyone knows where I am and what my intentions are and can plan accordingly.


Counterpoint: It is not uncommon in my local environment to have airplanes with radios steadfastly refuse to use them. I can't count the number of times somebody will make a single radio call and then NEVER SAY ANYTHING ELSE, even when repeatedly questioned about it. I have seen pilots call right traffic for a runway with other airplanes in left traffic for the same runway, or do a straight-in approach on the opposing runway to what three other airplanes are using, or take a runway that goes across the primary in use runway without saying a word.

Everybody having a radio in no way guarantees you will understand other pilots' intentions! :x
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3Dreaming
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Re: ADSB-B in and out

Postby 3Dreaming » Wed Apr 25, 2018 10:05 am

ShawnM wrote:
Warmi wrote:Radios are just another layer of safety , which by itself doesn’t t guarantee anything but layer enough of them and you will improve your chances.
In this day and age of $150 portable radios I think there is no excuse to fly without a radio.


Very well said, thank you Warmi.

Maybe the person WITHOUT the radio feels safe but those of us WITH a radio may not. We have no clue what your intentions are. When I’m approaching an airport and announcing my intentions everyone knows where I am and what my intentions are and can plan accordingly. When you come out of nowhere without a radio and surprise us now OUR workload just increased. Not only are we trying to fly the plane and communicate with other pilots, now we have this yo-yo without a radio and have no clue what you’re doing or where you’re going.

Flying already comes with inherent risks, why increase them?

I know, so does driving a car and walking down the street but we’re talking about FLYING. Why not make it as safe as you can?

For those of you with countless hours without a radio, good for you.


Just because you are talking on the radio doesn't relieve from your duties of looking for traffic. You should never be surprised by an airplane in the traffic pattern at an airport, just because you didn't hear them on the radio. You need to look out for yourself, and by look out I mean eyes looking for traffic. Especially be looking in the areas where aircraft should be in or entering the pattern. Having and using radios is a good thing, but it is not the preventer of all things bad.
https://www.ntsb.gov/investigations/Acc ... AR9704.pdf

TimTaylor
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Re: ADSB-B in and out

Postby TimTaylor » Wed Apr 25, 2018 1:42 pm

There is nothing wrong or inherently unsafe about flying an airplane with no electrical system or radio given the appropriate conditions. Having and using a radio does not relieve a pilot of the responsibility for "see and avoid" and following proper procedures. If you don't agree, contact the FAA and request that they add an FAR requiring a radio in all airplanes. Then, come back here and complain about the FAA "overreach" as usual.

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ShawnM
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Re: ADSB-B in and out

Postby ShawnM » Wed Apr 25, 2018 4:23 pm

MrMorden wrote:Counterpoint: It is not uncommon in my local environment to have airplanes with radios steadfastly refuse to use them. I can't count the number of times somebody will make a single radio call and then NEVER SAY ANYTHING ELSE, even when repeatedly questioned about it. I have seen pilots call right traffic for a runway with other airplanes in left traffic for the same runway, or do a straight-in approach on the opposing runway to what three other airplanes are using, or take a runway that goes across the primary in use runway without saying a word.

Everybody having a radio in no way guarantees you will understand other pilots' intentions! :x


Well, those pilots are just idiots and not the safest in the sky.

You can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink, right?

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ShawnM
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Re: ADSB-B in and out

Postby ShawnM » Wed Apr 25, 2018 4:28 pm

3Dreaming wrote:Just because you are talking on the radio doesn't relieve from your duties of looking for traffic. You should never be surprised by an airplane in the traffic pattern at an airport, just because you didn't hear them on the radio. You need to look out for yourself, and by look out I mean eyes looking for traffic. Especially be looking in the areas where aircraft should be in or entering the pattern. Having and using radios is a good thing, but it is not the preventer of all things bad.


Very true but why make everyone task at hand more difficult? If you are talking on the radio at least I know where to start looking for you or that you are even there.

Announce your intentions on the RADIO, is it really that difficult?

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ShawnM
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Re: ADSB-B in and out

Postby ShawnM » Wed Apr 25, 2018 4:36 pm

TimTaylor wrote:There is nothing wrong or inherently unsafe about flying an airplane with no electrical system or radio given the appropriate conditions. Having and using a radio does not relieve a pilot of the responsibility for "see and avoid" and following proper procedures. If you don't agree, contact the FAA and request that they add an FAR requiring a radio in all airplanes. Then, come back here and complain about the FAA "overreach" as usual.


Correct, we all have responsibilities as pilots, I guess mine will be looking out for idiots without radios.

I dont agree with your logic that it's just as safe and in this day and age everyone should have one. Why complicate things?

I'm sure there are many pilots reading this that were flying before radios were invented and dont see any issue with it, but it's now the 21st century and there's no reason for it.

Did I complain about FAA overreach? Not sure I did.

mike drop........ :mrgreen:

3Dreaming
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Re: ADSB-B in and out

Postby 3Dreaming » Wed Apr 25, 2018 5:02 pm

I think what some of you here fail to realize is that it is not just as simple as everybody should be talking on the radio. There are simply some airplanes that external noise and their non shielded ignition systems that make using a radio is all but impossible. While I may be able to listen, when I transmit it comes across as a loud roar that is unintelligible.

I suppose you think these airplanes should be grounded.

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ShawnM
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Re: ADSB-B in and out

Postby ShawnM » Wed Apr 25, 2018 5:13 pm

This "ADS-B In & Out" topic went off into the weeds somewhere along the way.

We can all sit and type until our fingers bleed on the keyboard but we will just have to agree to disagree on this subject of radios. We each expressed our opinion and we are each entitled to that. No one is changing anyones mind about radios, that's clear.

If anyone wants to start a new topic about the use of radios in aircraft that would be great.

Maybe we can get back to the subject at hand, ADS-B In & Out. :mrgreen:

TimTaylor
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Re: ADSB-B in and out

Postby TimTaylor » Wed Apr 25, 2018 6:52 pm

ShawnM wrote:
TimTaylor wrote:There is nothing wrong or inherently unsafe about flying an airplane with no electrical system or radio given the appropriate conditions. Having and using a radio does not relieve a pilot of the responsibility for "see and avoid" and following proper procedures. If you don't agree, contact the FAA and request that they add an FAR requiring a radio in all airplanes. Then, come back here and complain about the FAA "overreach" as usual.
I dont agree with your logic that it's just as safe and in this day and age everyone should have one.

Don't misstate what I said. I never said it was "just as safe." There are a lot of old J3's and other vintage aircraft flying that have no electrical system and no radio. As long as they fly in severe VFR and at non-busy airports, and follow proper procedures, they are plenty safe and just as entitled to fly their airplanes as you are your's. If you don't feel safe, stay on the ground. I refuse to discriminate against other pilots who follow the rules but may not have the resources to fly the latest, greatest shiny new airplanes.

Personally, if I was still flying one of these, I would use a handheld if it would work, just for the added safety it might provide.

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drseti
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Re: ADSB-B in and out

Postby drseti » Wed Apr 25, 2018 7:58 pm

Well, folks, now that we've talked this topic to death, could we please confine the rest of this thread to ADS-B?

Thanks.
The opinions posted are those of one CFI, and do not necessarily represent the FAA or its lawyers.
Prof H Paul Shuch
PhD CFII DPE LSRM-A/GL/WS/PPC iRMT
AvSport LLC, KLHV
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ShawnM
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Re: ADSB-B in and out

Postby ShawnM » Mon Apr 30, 2018 3:20 pm

Getting back to the ADS-B topic I wanted to report that I had to move my GPS antenna for my GDL-82 that I originally mounted on a bracket UNDER my cowling. Very similar to what Van's does on the RV-12 I think it was. I didn't want to drill another hole in my SportCruiser and I didn't want to mount it where the factory does as it's rather ugly there on top of the cowling. So I thought under the cowling was a good place since others have done it also with good results.

I was getting spotty GPS signal due to "airframe shadowing". I was failing maybe 2 of every 5 PAPR reports with the FAA. All it takes is one good one for the rebate but nevertheless I wanted better GPS signals and perfect PAPR reports all the time. The antenna was about 1-2 inches below the top of the cowling.

I removed my COM antenna from the top, center of the airplane and put the Garmin GA-35 antenna there utilizing the same hole. This is the best location for a GPS antenna according to Garmin. I then purchased a RAMI AV-17 belly mount COM antenna and mounted it across from my transponder/ADS-B out antenna. It works better on the belly for air to ground communications anyway. I didn't mind drilling a hole in the bottom of the plane and now the COM antenna is also in the best location.

Since moving my GPS antenna all my PAPR reports come back PERFECT. The moral of this story is to pick the GPS antenna location wisely. :mrgreen:

restlinbaum
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Re: ADSB-B in and out

Postby restlinbaum » Mon Apr 30, 2018 8:09 pm

Well after much thought and $$$, I have chosen to go with the Garmin GDL 82 and GDL 50 route with a Garmin Aera 660. I picked up a good used GTX 330 from a shop that sold it to me (the owner was upgrading) and I got it for a great deal of 500.00. I just could not pay that kind of money for the 335.
Ray
Ray Estlinbaum, CFI-S


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