Fatality - USSYorktown

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MrMorden
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Re: Fatality - USSYorktown

Postby MrMorden » Thu Jan 25, 2018 10:07 am

drseti wrote:
FastEddieB wrote:My “Daniel Bernath - lessons to be learned?” thread just got locked as well.

Good example of over-moderation in my book.


Which I've always tried to avoid here, Eddie, because I believed anyone could be educated. I guess this accident proves me wrong.


Anyone CAN be educated, if they CHOOSE to allow the education to take place.
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Re: Fatality - USSYorktown

Postby 3Dreaming » Thu Jan 25, 2018 10:28 am

TimTaylor wrote:
3Dreaming wrote:
Half Fast wrote:

Go over to the POA website and read about his fuel mismanagement crash and subsequent lawsuit. He made an unplanned landing because his fuel gauges showed low fuel, confirmed he only had about 3 gallons left, did not add fuel (??!!), then took off again in clear violation of the reg about VFR fuel reserve. After crashing, he sued the plane manufacturer, his instructor, and a host of others. Suit was finally dismissed with prejudice.

I'm not sure whether that's evidence of insanity or stupidity, but either way it's consistent with honestly believing one can use GPS ground speed to land.


Just to be fair 3 gallons in a Rotax engine does meet legal reserves, but not by much. it certainly was not enough for the airplane he was flying.
That depends on how much fuel he needed to get from where he landed to his final destination. He would need enough to get there plus 30 minutes of reserve. My point is, once he landed and decided to take off again, it was a new flight with it's own fuel requirements.


Agreed, but with a fuel burn of 5 gallons per hour, which my CT has in normal cruise, you need 2.5 gallons for your 1/2 hour reserve. That leaves .5 gallons for the flight. Using the same fuel burn you would have 6 minutes of flight time. Unless the airplane is really slow or there is a big headwind you should be able to make a 4 mile flight in less than 6 minutes. This would not be in violation of the regulations. Personally I would not do this, especially in the type of airplane he was flying.

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Re: Fatality - USSYorktown

Postby ct4me » Thu Jan 25, 2018 2:13 pm

I know that the FAA was notified numerous times about his flying antics, hoping for some intervention. And there was the Tallahassee incident May 5, 2014, where the tower and FBO got into it with Dan. Surely the FAA got wind of that, directly or through little birds. It doesn't matter now... DB has been released from his demons.
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Half Fast
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Re: Fatality - USSYorktown

Postby Half Fast » Thu Jan 25, 2018 2:31 pm

3Dreaming wrote:
TimTaylor wrote:
3Dreaming wrote:
Just to be fair 3 gallons in a Rotax engine does meet legal reserves, but not by much. it certainly was not enough for the airplane he was flying.
That depends on how much fuel he needed to get from where he landed to his final destination. He would need enough to get there plus 30 minutes of reserve. My point is, once he landed and decided to take off again, it was a new flight with it's own fuel requirements.


Agreed, but with a fuel burn of 5 gallons per hour, which my CT has in normal cruise, you need 2.5 gallons for your 1/2 hour reserve. That leaves .5 gallons for the flight. Using the same fuel burn you would have 6 minutes of flight time. Unless the airplane is really slow or there is a big headwind you should be able to make a 4 mile flight in less than 6 minutes. This would not be in violation of the regulations. Personally I would not do this, especially in the type of airplane he was flying.


BUT, I believe that aircraft has 1 gallon unusable. So if you have 3 gallons in the tanks, you only have 2 gallons available to you, and at 5 gph that's 24 minutes. Besides, that 5 gph number is at cruise, not take-off and climb. Furthermore, there's nothing left for taxi, run-up, or time in the pattern.

Bad, bad, bad decision.
1/2
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Re: Fatality - USSYorktown

Postby ct4me » Thu Jan 25, 2018 2:31 pm

P.S. re: Van's over moderation...
'Gotta agree, 'serious power tripping over there. I got banned for life for posting info about a R.Lee Rotax class. No notice, no warning, no explanation. The forum boss doesn't like Roger.

PS2.... Some manuals spec the CT at as much as 7.1 GPH on take-off and climb out.
http://documents.flightdesignusa.com/SW-POH.pdf
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Re: Fatality - USSYorktown

Postby FastEddieB » Thu Jan 25, 2018 4:42 pm

Fast Eddie B.
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Re: Fatality - USSYorktown

Postby 3Dreaming » Thu Jan 25, 2018 5:35 pm

Half Fast wrote:
3Dreaming wrote:
TimTaylor wrote:That depends on how much fuel he needed to get from where he landed to his final destination. He would need enough to get there plus 30 minutes of reserve. My point is, once he landed and decided to take off again, it was a new flight with it's own fuel requirements.


Agreed, but with a fuel burn of 5 gallons per hour, which my CT has in normal cruise, you need 2.5 gallons for your 1/2 hour reserve. That leaves .5 gallons for the flight. Using the same fuel burn you would have 6 minutes of flight time. Unless the airplane is really slow or there is a big headwind you should be able to make a 4 mile flight in less than 6 minutes. This would not be in violation of the regulations. Personally I would not do this, especially in the type of airplane he was flying.


BUT, I believe that aircraft has 1 gallon unusable. So if you have 3 gallons in the tanks, you only have 2 gallons available to you, and at 5 gph that's 24 minutes. Besides, that 5 gph number is at cruise, not take-off and climb. Furthermore, there's nothing left for taxi, run-up, or time in the pattern.

Bad, bad, bad decision.


I was not talking about any specific aircraft, just that taking off with 3 gallons wouldn't necessarily be contray to the regulations.

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Scooper
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Re: Fatality - USSYorktown

Postby Scooper » Thu Jan 25, 2018 6:19 pm

This very critical blog article about Daniel Bernath was posted on January 19, shortly before the fatal accident. Coincidence?
http://thisainthell.us/blog/?p=69862

The link was posted today on Kathryn's Report about the Bonita Springs fatal accident.
http://www.kathrynsreport.com/2018/01/vans-rv-12-n262ws-world-adventure.html

He was arrested in Virginia Dec. 2016 on multiple charges of stalking and violating a protective order.

Online records show Bernath pleaded guilty to two of those charges just last week, on Jan. 19th. He was sentenced to one year in jail and two years probation.


I wonder if he was representing himself...
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Re: Fatality - USSYorktown

Postby TimTaylor » Thu Jan 25, 2018 6:31 pm

I think there will be a lot of questions about just exactly what happened and why?

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Jim Hardin
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Re: Fatality - USSYorktown

Postby Jim Hardin » Fri Jan 26, 2018 6:43 am

This guy was a real piece of work and will not be missed!

That said, curious about the accident... Might be the first time the NTSB adds personality deficiency to its' causes.

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FastEddieB
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Re: Fatality - USSYorktown

Postby FastEddieB » Fri Jan 26, 2018 6:56 am

Apparently he was active on the Vans Air Force forum and exhibited similar behavior concerning maintenance concerns on his RV12.

Cross-posting text blocks from another forum can be frowned upon, but there are a couple in this post to POA that may be illustrative:

https://www.pilotsofamerica.com/community/threads/plane-crash-in-bonita-springs-fl-1-22-18.108424/page-3#post-2448626

Definitely in the area of broad speculation here, but if Bernath was as lackadaisical and resistant to advice regarding maintenance issues - including apparently flight control issues - as he was to our advice about iPads and landing, it’s not hard to imagine an avoidable mechanical issue being involved somehow.

Out of morbid curious, I may peruse his posts on the Vans site to look for clues. I would imagine the NTSB will do likewise.
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Re: Fatality - USSYorktown

Postby Merlinspop » Fri Jan 26, 2018 9:13 am

I've encountered a few people over the years for whom reality was a seemingly escapable inconvenience. Sometimes I try to help. Sometimes I just have to wish them the best and turn away.
- Bruce

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Re: Fatality - USSYorktown

Postby TimTaylor » Fri Jan 26, 2018 11:30 am

He was also being harassed by certain groups for some of his behavior. He may have succumbed to the stress of all that. In some of his rantings he would make reference to "self-murder."

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joey4420
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Re: Fatality - USSYorktown

Postby joey4420 » Fri Jan 26, 2018 4:23 pm

Wow, I just read through all of this and some of his previous posts about the $.99 app for groundspeed as well the NTSB report for his fuel issue related crash. I hope he found peace.

I know as a low time sport pilot with only 91.2 hours total, 172 landings, and 62.3 as Pilot in Command; 53.1 of which is in my Ercoupe. I am always willing to learn and seeking more information on how to be a better pilot. Sure I read forums and talk to pilots almost every weekend (local EAA chapter), but true flying advise I seek out from Flight Instructors preferably with Ercoupe experience as that is what I spend my time in.

I was flying just 2 weeks ago, preflighted my Ercoupe calculated I had enough fuel to get to my destination all checked out and I took off for KTSO from KHAO. About 40 minutes from KTSO I noticed my header tank was using fuel even though I seen my port wing tank still indicated fuel. I landed at the next airport with fuel and filled both tanks without even a second thought. Took off again and finished my flight plan as planned. Of course I filled up again before flying back home because I didn't want a repeat of that flight. My calculation was off due to a 10 knot headwind.

We are always learning,
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Re: Fatality - USSYorktown

Postby TimTaylor » Sat Jan 27, 2018 10:34 pm

The SkyCatcher I fly holds 24 gallons of fuel, 12 gallons per side, and burns just over 6 gallons per hour. I rarely let it get below 1/2 tanks and always top off before each flight unless I have a passenger. My knees are hurting and I have to pee after 2 hours anyway.


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