Were you comfortable explaining to your fellow pilots you became a sport pilot because of a medical reason?

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SteveZ-FL
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Re: Were you comfortable explaining to your fellow pilots you became a sport pilot because of a medical reason?

Postby SteveZ-FL » Tue Dec 12, 2017 10:08 am

Everyone's goals are different, so the "one size fits all - go PPL" approach doesn't satisfy.   Nor does the "in the end it's more economical to...." logic apply to everyone. 

The idea that Sport Pilot could be "Ticket #1" with PPL as "Ticket #2" and so forth is still a good one to me, considering the ever-growing complexities in airspace management, aviation systems, et cetera.  So, a CFI or other person trying to convince someone that PPL is a better bargain and "you're going to do it anyway" can be an injustice to the potential student.  I don't know what the failure rates are for Sport Pilot students versus PPL students, but I do know that attemptng to influence someone to chase something beyond their needs or goals isn't right.

I'm sure there are folk who have gotten their Sport Pilot ticket with the FAA minimum hours, but they are a very select few.  So the "20 hours vs, 40 hours" is deceptive.  It's like arguing that one should skip getting an auto-only drivers license and just go straight for auto with motorcycle endorsement or for a CDL, because someday one may find oneself in a motorcycle-need or CDL situation.  

I know me, and for me flying is a fun activity.  I don't see me flying at night, bad weather or other such situation, as I don't see flying in those conditions as fun.  If my view of "fun flying" changes, I can always get more training to accommodate.  I had an auto-only drivers license long before I got a motorcycle endorsement.  I don't see flying as being any different.

As far as the medical (DL vs. Class 3) goes, it goes back to "why bother with Class 3" at this time?  If the goals change to include PPL, then that's a bridge to cross at a later time.  As far as explaining it to others, I see no need.  I can't see why another aviator would even care, other than as some sort of ego thing or "my ticket is better than yours" bias.

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Re: Were you comfortable explaining to your fellow pilots you became a sport pilot because of a medical reason?

Postby TimTaylor » Tue Dec 12, 2017 1:26 pm

If you are young and healthy, I recommend a Private Pilot certificate. It takes just a few hours more for a little more instrument and the night flying. It's usually easier to find CFI's and aircraft to train in and to rent afterward. Being able to carry more than one passenger and fly at night is a benefit.

If you are an older person or aren't sure about the 3rd class medical, I recommend a Sport Pilot certificate. I've been flying with Sport Pilot privileges and limitations for the past 5 years with no regrets. I do miss flying the Mooney I could be flying if I had a medical or qualified for Basic Med.

I don't recommend Sport Pilot as a stepping stone to Private. Just go straight for Private and take one written and one flight test.
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SteveZ-FL
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Re: Were you comfortable explaining to your fellow pilots you became a sport pilot because of a medical reason?

Postby SteveZ-FL » Tue Dec 12, 2017 4:50 pm

For the young person with aviation career goals, couldn't agree more.  For the young person without aviation career goals but having a hobbyist interest in aviation, that's another story.  There's nothing wrong with beginning with Sport Pilot training and then letting the person's enthusiam (or lack of it) determine whether the training be expanded. 

So what if a PPL program is "only" a few more hours.  That "few more hours" can actually be anywhere from 20 to 40 hours, depending on student ability and progression, and that can equate to a lot of calendar time and several thousand dollars.  I wish I knew how many folk quit getting a PPL due to time and cost, but could have achieved a Sport Pilot ticket which would have given a sense of achievement, the opportunity to gain practical experience, and then possibly gone further based on that experience.

Don't know if there any statistics concerning how many folk (and their ages) have acquired a Sport Pilot ticket and then transitioned to PPL, or how many folk while undergoing Sport Pilot training converted during the training to a PPL program.

Sport Pilot is still relatively new, and so the number of programs and CFIs out there still following only the pre-2004 way of doing things dominate the market.  Hopefully, as time goes by, that will change.

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Re: Were you comfortable explaining to your fellow pilots you became a sport pilot because of a medical reason?

Postby TimTaylor » Tue Dec 12, 2017 5:17 pm

We have had this discussion here many times. Not many people get a Sport Pilot certificate near the 20 hours time requirement. Many take 40 hours or more to get a Sport Pilot certificate. Also, in my opinion, a C150 or C172 or Cherokee 140 is actually easier to fly than many LSA. A Private requires 3 hours of night flight and 3 hours of instrument. A student pilot needs some instrument training before solo cross-country. So, a Private only requires about 4 or 5 hours of training that a Sport Pilot doesn't.

If you get ready for and take a Sport Pilot flight test and later get ready for and take a Private Pilot flight test, you are going to spend more time and money than you would for the additional 4 or 5 hours of training for a Private. There is also the issue of having to study for and take an additional written test. So, IMHO, there is absolutely no reason to get a Sport Pilot certificate IF YOUR ULTIMATE GOAL IS A PRIVATE. Just go straight for the Private.

Now, if you are a super sharp kid who can pick up things very quickly and can get a Sport Pilot certificate in 20 to 25 hours, then maybe it would be a different situation, but I think that is not very common.

As I said in my earlier post, THIS IS MY RECOMMENDATION. Others may have a different recommendation.
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Re: Were you comfortable explaining to your fellow pilots you became a sport pilot because of a medical reason?

Postby 3Dreaming » Tue Dec 12, 2017 6:02 pm

I will first say that I agree that if the ultimate goal is the private pilot that you should go ahead and skip sport pilot. Skipping the additional knowledge and practical test will save you about $1,000 in prep, study material, and testing fees.

Tim's assertion that it will only take an additional 4-5 hours is a little off base. There is more to adding private privileges than a little more instrument and 3 hours of night training. I would expect about double his estimate for training, plus an additional 5 hours of solo flight.

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Re: Were you comfortable explaining to your fellow pilots you became a sport pilot because of a medical reason?

Postby chicagorandy » Tue Dec 12, 2017 7:17 pm

" Many take 40 hours or more to get a Sport Pilot certificate."

Given that reality is it reasonable to guesstimate that those same folks will likely take 60-80 hours to get a Private? Aviation's simple math is hours = $$, and more hours = even more $$.

I am in the senior citizen group that looks to aviation as an attractive novelty hobby the pursuit of which is subject to a very limited amount of discretionary funding. Also in consideration of my 'realistic' potential usage, Sport Pilot just makes the most sense at this time. The CFIs I will be using are also certified for Private training so any hours I accumulate should carry over if my finances or desires change.

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Re: Were you comfortable explaining to your fellow pilots you became a sport pilot because of a medical reason?

Postby TimTaylor » Tue Dec 12, 2017 7:23 pm

chicagorandy wrote:" Many take 40 hours or more to get a Sport Pilot certificate."

Given that reality is it reasonable to guesstimate that those same folks will likely take 60-80 hours to get a Private? Aviation's simple math is hours = $$, and more hours = even more $$.

I am in the senior citizen group that looks to aviation as an attractive novelty hobby the pursuit of which is subject to a very limited amount of discretionary funding. Also in consideration of my 'realistic' potential usage, Sport Pilot just makes the most sense at this time. The CFIs I will be using are also certified for Private training so any hours I accumulate should carry over if my finances or desires change.

No, I don't think so. There is no difference in skill level required. IMHO, the difference is 3 hours of night flight and maybe 2 more hours of instrument. As a matter of fact, I believe many will have less problems learning to fly a C150, C172, or Cherokee 140 than an LSA and will actually save time there.

The problem for us older guys is passing a 3rd class medical. There is an element of risk that you might fail and never get to fly. That's why I think it's best to go for Sport Pilot if you're older.
Commercial Pilot Airplane Single & Multiengine Land; Instrument Airplane; Sport Endorsement Airplane Single Engine Sea; Flight Instructor Airplane Single And Multiengine; Ground Instructor Advanced Instrument

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Re: Were you comfortable explaining to your fellow pilots you became a sport pilot because of a medical reason?

Postby 3Dreaming » Wed Dec 13, 2017 9:56 am

TimTaylor wrote:No, I don't think so. There is no difference in skill level required. IMHO, the difference is 3 hours of night flight and maybe 2 more hours of instrument.


It could be 3 hours of instrument depending on which airplane they were training in. You have an extra hour of prep for the check ride. You have an extra 5 hours solo. You have towered airport training. Electronic navigation, and use of radar services. Realistically you are looking at an extra 15 hours of flight time with closer to 5 being flight instruction.

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Re: Were you comfortable explaining to your fellow pilots you became a sport pilot because of a medical reason?

Postby Half Fast » Wed Dec 13, 2017 11:43 am

If medical isn't a problem, you might consider the Rec ticket. Rec shouldn't take much, if anything, beyond Sport - still day VFR only, no instruments or night flying. The advantage would be a wider variety of aircraft can be flown with Rec.

Rec has a 50 mile radius limit, but that can be removed with an endorsement so it's not really an issue.
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3Dreaming
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Re: Were you comfortable explaining to your fellow pilots you became a sport pilot because of a medical reason?

Postby 3Dreaming » Wed Dec 13, 2017 12:48 pm

Half Fast wrote:If medical isn't a problem, you might consider the Rec ticket. Rec shouldn't take much, if anything, beyond Sport - still day VFR only, no instruments or night flying. The advantage would be a wider variety of aircraft can be flown with Rec.

Rec has a 50 mile radius limit, but that can be removed with an endorsement so it's not really an issue.


This is another good option because of greater airplane availability that you can fly. The bad thing is most instructors are even less familiar with it than sport pilot, or think it is the same as sport pilot.

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Re: Were you comfortable explaining to your fellow pilots you became a sport pilot because of a medical reason?

Postby TimTaylor » Wed Dec 13, 2017 1:00 pm

Regardless, I do not recommend Sport Pilot if Private Pilot is your goal. Just go straight for the Private.
Commercial Pilot Airplane Single & Multiengine Land; Instrument Airplane; Sport Endorsement Airplane Single Engine Sea; Flight Instructor Airplane Single And Multiengine; Ground Instructor Advanced Instrument

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Half Fast
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Re: Were you comfortable explaining to your fellow pilots you became a sport pilot because of a medical reason?

Postby Half Fast » Wed Dec 13, 2017 2:06 pm

3Dreaming wrote:
This is another good option because of greater airplane availability that you can fly. The bad thing is most instructors are even less familiar with it than sport pilot, or think it is the same as sport pilot.




-sigh-
Sounds like he needs to move somewhere with better instructors. Moving to central Florida and training at First Landings would be a good option.
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cimmaronjim
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Re: Were you comfortable explaining to your fellow pilots you became a sport pilot because of a medical reason?

Postby cimmaronjim » Wed Dec 13, 2017 2:49 pm

I got into it with someone on the GA board. I had said that light sport fit my mission that's the type of plane I had and though I could probably get the med it might take SI's so I didn't want to spend the cost and hassle of that.

He said I was just cheap and shouldn't become a pilot because of bad decision making.

I loudly told him to go fornicate himself .

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Re: Were you comfortable explaining to your fellow pilots you became a sport pilot because of a medical reason?

Postby drseti » Wed Dec 13, 2017 6:54 pm

pjdavis wrote:
Leave these arguments on FB...


Yes, I agree completely. Enough is enough, children :?
The opinions posted are those of one CFI, and do not necessarily represent the FAA or its lawyers.
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Re: Were you comfortable explaining to your fellow pilots you became a sport pilot because of a medical reason?

Postby drseti » Wed Dec 13, 2017 7:01 pm

TimTaylor wrote:I don't recommend Sport Pilot as a stepping stone to Private. Just go straight for Private and take one written and one flight test.


I respectfully disagree. It depends on the flight school and how the curriculum is designed, of course. In my case, with a modular curriculum design, everybody gets the Sport first, and then those 25% who wish to go on to Private can do so with ten hours or less of additional instruction. (The other 75% have found that SP fits their mission).

Since my students complete Sport in about 35 hours, that means the Sport to Private route still costs less than the typical Private course, even including the two writtens and two checkrides.

YMMV.
The opinions posted are those of one CFI, and do not necessarily represent the FAA or its lawyers.
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PhD CFII DPE LSRM-A/GL/WS/PPC iRMT
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