Don't mean to start a bruhaha....

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914Driver
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Don't mean to start a bruhaha....

Postby 914Driver » Sat Dec 03, 2016 5:28 pm

However, I have LSA questions and criteria.

If you want to do LSA which cruises well, comfortable for two but capable of kissing a grass strip if required; what would you drag home? Side by side seating, no back seat. Fast enough to go somewhere but light enough to drop into Farmer Brown's field if necessary. It will have to sleep outside, but with the winters here perhaps folding it up and stuffing it into a big garage is an option.

I'm thinking fiberglass, rag wings don't hold up to big rain or hail. By the way, you have only $30,000 to spend.

I like an Allegro. (one recently sold for ~$25k)
Luscombe?
Ercoupe has some peculiarities.
Dragonflys are glass but too fast and eat up too much real estate.
NFG on the Long EZ at 400 fpm climb.

Walking around the hangars I found everyone is happy to talk about their plane, whaddaya got?

Suggestions?


Thanks, Dan

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zaitcev
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Re: Don't mean to start a bruhaha....

Postby zaitcev » Sat Dec 03, 2016 11:59 pm

CTSW or CTLS, depending on budget. They fly off grass all over their (now formerly) native country and Poland. And they are the best LSA that really meet the cruise numbers, on 100 hp anyway (you can get something Jabiru-powered, but eh...).

914Driver
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Re: Don't mean to start a bruhaha....

Postby 914Driver » Sun Dec 04, 2016 12:54 pm

Any thoughts on the Q200 or Dragonfly kit? I understand they eat up a lot of real estate taking off and landing, but are comfy and move along smartly.

I ask because I saw one on ebay a while ago, guy forgot to put a reserve on it and had to sell it for $2800. Safety concerns?



Dan

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rsteele
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Re: Don't mean to start a bruhaha....

Postby rsteele » Sun Dec 04, 2016 4:03 pm

eyeflygps wrote:Sonex.

Not really comfortable for two. More like 1 and a half. There are two of them at my local airport. Neither owner really wants to fly with a passenger.

At the risk of arising Andy's ire, I'll suggest a Zenith 601/650B. These fly off grass just about everywhere in the world except the the US where pilots seem reluctant to land low wing tricycles on grass. They can be had cheap (thanks to all the Zenith bashers out there) and the B modal (structurally upgraded) has an excellent safety record and are dirt simple to fly. They certainly are not as fast as a CT, but it's probably going to cost less than 1/2. It's also a very comfortable 2 seater; certainly more room than a 172 and a LOT more room than a Sonex (which apart from being really small, seems like a great plane).

Ron

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Re: Don't mean to start a bruhaha....

Postby drseti » Mon Dec 05, 2016 9:46 am

I agree with Ron. The 601 is definitely worth a look.
The opinions posted are those of one CFI, and do not necessarily represent the FAA or its lawyers.
Prof. H. Paul Shuch, Ph.D., CFII, LSRM-A/GL/WS/PPC, iRMT
AvSport of Lock Haven
fly@AvSport.org
http://AvSport.org
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914Driver
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Re: Don't mean to start a bruhaha....

Postby 914Driver » Mon Dec 05, 2016 11:49 am

Wow, that does definitely check all the boxes.

The one below is $24k.

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rsteele
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Re: Don't mean to start a bruhaha....

Postby rsteele » Mon Dec 05, 2016 12:58 pm

914Driver wrote:Wow, that does definitely check all the boxes.

The one below is $24k.

Image


The picture is a 601HD, the older model. A friend has one. Note there is a center section wing and the main gear is mounted to that section. In the newer XLB there is no center wing and the gear is attached directly to the fuse. The HD is going to be slower than the XL with a slightly smaller interior, and the pictured example has a sidewise opening canopy (opens from either side!). Some of the HD's have a header tank, some wing tanks whereas the XLB has wing tangs. HD has super think wings and no flaps. If it has the optional wing lockers, they are huge.

Ron

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MrMorden
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Re: Don't mean to start a bruhaha....

Postby MrMorden » Tue Dec 06, 2016 1:09 pm

rsteele wrote:
eyeflygps wrote:Sonex.

Not really comfortable for two. More like 1 and a half. There are two of them at my local airport. Neither owner really wants to fly with a passenger.

At the risk of arising Andy's ire, I'll suggest a Zenith 601/650B. These fly off grass just about everywhere in the world except the the US where pilots seem reluctant to land low wing tricycles on grass. They can be had cheap (thanks to all the Zenith bashers out there) and the B modal (structurally upgraded) has an excellent safety record and are dirt simple to fly. They certainly are not as fast as a CT, but it's probably going to cost less than 1/2. It's also a very comfortable 2 seater; certainly more room than a 172 and a LOT more room than a Sonex (which apart from being really small, seems like a great plane).

Ron


LOL! No ire here, my thoughts on the subject are well-documented here. I'd personally choose the better-engineered and higher-performance Sonex over a roomier 601/650, but we're all adults and can make our own decisions. 8) I do like the 601HD/HDS over the 601XL.

And there is nothing wrong with a Luscombe. With a budget of $30k you could buy a nice one and still have $10k left for fuel and maintenance for the first couple of years.
Andy Walker
Athens, GA
Sport Pilot ASEL, LSRI
2007 Flight Design CTSW E-LSA

MackAttack
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Re: Don't mean to start a bruhaha....

Postby MackAttack » Wed Dec 07, 2016 12:26 pm

And by the way, not all US LSA pilots are concerned about flying low-wing tricycle gear aircraft on grass strips; my home field is a grass strip and my Tecnam Astore LSA does great on it....

Cheers

rsteele
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Re: Don't mean to start a bruhaha....

Postby rsteele » Wed Dec 07, 2016 2:24 pm

MackAttack wrote:And by the way, not all US LSA pilots are concerned about flying low-wing tricycle gear aircraft on grass strips; my home field is a grass strip and my Tecnam Astore LSA does great on it....

Cheers


Glad to hear it. I hope to try it out myself this coming summer.

Ron

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Re: Don't mean to start a bruhaha....

Postby 914Driver » Fri Jan 13, 2017 10:53 am

I see a 601 HDS for sale at $21,000 OBO, any thoughts, suggestions?

I like the tail dragger.




http://www.ebay.com/itm/aircraft-/11226 ... 2263577541

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rsteele
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Re: Don't mean to start a bruhaha....

Postby rsteele » Fri Jan 13, 2017 11:24 am

Most 601 HDS's don't meet the LSA requirements, the stall speed is to high. Check carefully.
Some may meet the requirements. Things like micro vortex generators help. I've only ever seen one and it wasn't LSA.
The HDS is an HD with shorter, tapered wings.

Ron

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Re: Don't mean to start a bruhaha....

Postby drseti » Fri Jan 13, 2017 12:19 pm

You might wish to view my presentation "How to buy a used LSA", linked from EAA.org/webinars.
The opinions posted are those of one CFI, and do not necessarily represent the FAA or its lawyers.
Prof. H. Paul Shuch, Ph.D., CFII, LSRM-A/GL/WS/PPC, iRMT
AvSport of Lock Haven
fly@AvSport.org
http://AvSport.org
http://facebook.com/SportFlying

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MrMorden
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Re: Don't mean to start a bruhaha....

Postby MrMorden » Wed Jan 18, 2017 11:36 am

I don't think the tail dragger was originally an option, though I could be wrong. If not, that means some "experimental" engineering has been done. I'd want to make sure it was done right. Also as noted, many HDS airframes aren't LSA-legal.

If you want a tail dragger for short-field stuff, the Avid/Kitfox/Eurofox/Highlander family is pretty great. Just get one with as much horsepower as you can afford. My buddy has a 65hp Avid with custom gear and 23" tires, and it's great at short field ops. He lands at sub-thousand foot strips easily. But 80hp or 100hp would be much better. Also as mentioned by others I like the Luscombe. If you are willing to give up short field, the Sonex is a great airplane, built like a tank, and +6g/-3g aerobatic. It will cruise at 130mph even on 80hp, and the 120hp Jabiru on one is a screamer and still LSA-legal (barely).
Andy Walker
Athens, GA
Sport Pilot ASEL, LSRI
2007 Flight Design CTSW E-LSA

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MrMorden
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Re: Don't mean to start a bruhaha....

Postby MrMorden » Wed Jan 18, 2017 11:36 am

drseti wrote:You might wish to view my presentation "How to buy a used LSA", linked from EAA.org/webinars.


SHAMELESS!!! :lol:
Andy Walker
Athens, GA
Sport Pilot ASEL, LSRI
2007 Flight Design CTSW E-LSA


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