Remos down w/ fatalities

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ct4me
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Remos down w/ fatalities

Post by ct4me »

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Re: Remos down w/ fatalities

Post by flightwriter »

It's been an extremely sad weekend around here. The (presumed) pilot had just earned her PPL at the end of last year, and Thomas was a former president of the local EAA chapter.

More than 1/3 of my 215 hours so far were in N28GX. The last time I flew it was back in October. Even at 2900+ hours on the Hobbs, much of it as a trainer, it was still in amazingly good condition - particularly so for an LSA - and was nearing 1000 hours on its second 912. Everyone who flew the plane loved it.

In my experience, the owner of NMSA is also very diligent about maintenance (performed by a shop on the field at SAF.) Over the past year, he also added BRS 'chutes to this aircraft and another Remos in the fleet, and made a much-needed upgrade to the electrical system in the second plane. I can't imagine what he's feeling right now.
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Re: Remos down w/ fatalities

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Re: Remos down w/ fatalities

Post by zaitcev »

My last flight in N28GX was on December 20, 2015 when I went to a fly-in breakfast organized by EAA 555 in Las Cruces, NM. The aircraft was in top shape, no squacks. On preflight, I examined rudder cables and quick disconnects for ailerons and elevator. Ironically, I still have a set of keys for it. I started flying it back when every renter received a personal set of keys.

It's quite unfortunate for Karen and her family. She is survived by 2 boys of 9 and 11 and husband. A couple of weeks ago she took him for a lunch in Taos, NM in the N28GX. Local EAA chapter sent photographs around. I feel like I've met her at wilderness survival seminar, but I can't be sure now. By all accounts she was positive in attitude and enthusiastic about aviation.
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Re: Remos down w/ fatalities

Post by FastEddieB »

So sad.

Another thread on the topic here:

http://ctflier.com/index.php?/topic/3655-remos-down/
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Re: Remos down w/ fatalities

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Re: Remos down w/ fatalities

Post by Helen »

Any word on the cause? The only other two Remos fatalities I've heard of were caused by incorrect assembly of the folding wing mechanism.
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Re: Remos down w/ fatalities

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Re: Remos down w/ fatalities

Post by zaitcev »

Helen wrote:Any word on the cause? The only other two Remos fatalities I've heard of were caused by incorrect assembly of the folding wing mechanism.
The "only other two" is not a complete picture. The N28GX is the 5th fatal crash of Remos in U.S. The previous four were:

* Sebring, Florida, 2011: One wing was folded for sales display at the show. When unfolded for a demonstration flight, they forgot to re-connect aileron QD and airplane rolled at takeoff from a height of a couple of wingspans. One of two occupants survived.

* Westminster, Maryland, 2012: This is the guy who famously locked BRS with a padlock. Elevator QD came undone in flight. Maybe connected the QD but didn't get the safety pip locked properly. In that crash the fuselage came apart but there was no fire.

* Tucson, Arisona, 2013: An experienced instructor took a new girl up and performed a sporty pattern 200 ft off the ground, banked steeply enough to hit accelerated stall for his speed and G load. This one was just bad, reprehensible, IIRC.

* Noblesville, Indiana, 2013: Pilot did a buzz job of a relatives' house, got slow and stalled. So typical.

The crash of Karen and Thomas occurred when turning from crosswind to downwind. Left pattern for 16 at Ohkey Wingeh is over a raising terrain but the cliff is not imposing, maybe 200 feet. The wreck site is on the flat ground at airport property. I'm afraid we'll never know what happened, unless NTSB investigation finds a snapped rudder cable.
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Re: Remos down w/ fatalities

Post by snaproll »

Pete,
Good history list. I own N29GX and perform an extensive preflight each outing, especially the control system. Will wait to see what NTSB comes up with. Sad loss of life. VR.. Don Stits
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Re: Remos down w/ fatalities

Post by flightwriter »

NTSB published the Prelim this morning. Not much new to report, although it does lay out the timeline for the flight, and details the pilot's extensive time in the aircraft over the past year.

http://www.ntsb.gov/_layouts/ntsb.aviat ... 1659&key=1
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Re: Remos down w/ fatalities

Post by Cluemeister »

At the end of the report:

"The nearest aviation weather reporting station was located at Los Alamos Airport (LAM), Los Alamos, New Mexico, about 14 miles southwest of the accident site. At 1556, the LAM automated surface observing system reported the following weather conditions: wind 190 degrees true at 12 knots, gusting 24 knots"

And later:

" A peak wind velocity of 27 knots was recorded at 1525."

Not specifically related to this accident, but to winds and gusts in general. Do these type of winds give any of you pause if you were planning to fly on any given day?
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zaitcev
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Re: Remos down w/ fatalities

Post by zaitcev »

Cluemeister wrote:Not specifically related to this accident, but to winds and gusts in general. Do these type of winds give any of you pause if you were planning to fly on any given day?
The 12G24 from 190 at runway 16 would not stop me. My crosswind limit in the accident airplane was 22 knots. In practice I could land it between heavier gusts, but it was iffy, and it was absolutely no flying if forecast anything like 30 knots. In addition, I would not fly to LAM when it blows 190@12G24 because it's an elevated hazard airport with runway pointing west.

However, I don't think gusts are relevant. First, weather at Los Alamos is always special and not particularly relevant to the weather in the valley. NTSB is just acting according a bureaucratic pattern here. As soon as I heard about the accident, I went to look at METARs for Santa Fe and it was essentially calm.

KSAF 112353Z 18006KT 10SM CLR 19/M11 A3004 RMK AO2 SLP122 T01941111 10206 20161 56016
KSAF 112253Z 24007KT 10SM CLR 21/M10 A3006 RMK AO2 SLP125 T02061100

Second, when a Remos GX operates in a traffic pattern, winds gusting to 12 to 27 knots should not be enough to stall. I flew in weather like that many times and the actual gust factor in the air ls much smaller. The airspeed excursions aren't particularly threatening, not when you're near Vy at 65 knots. I can see it being a concern at upwind, in which case I climb at higher airspeeds than normal Vx of 52 knots. Turning downwind though - I don't think so. In any case the weather was fine.

So if not gusts, then what? Frankly I don't have an explanation. Possibly some control ambiguity between Karen and Thomas. But there's no way to know.
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Re: Remos down w/ fatalities

Post by FastEddieB »

Cluemeister wrote: And later:

" A peak wind velocity of 27 knots was recorded at 1525."

Not specifically related to this accident, but to winds and gusts in general. Do these type of winds give any of you pause if you were planning to fly on any given day?
In our Sky Arrow we did postpone our recent Indiana trip for a day because of similar winds.

It's the Most Conservative Action rule. Also expressed as "If in doubt, sit it out."

It's especially tricky for pilots "stepping up to Light Sport" from heavier, faster planes that can handle tougher crosswinds. But new pilots do have to ease into increasing crosswind and gust ability as they hone their skills as well.
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Re: Remos down w/ fatalities

Post by zaitcev »

FastEddieB wrote:In our Sky Arrow we did postpone our recent Indiana trip for a day because of similar winds.
Note that according to radar records, Karen and Thomas made 3 landings at Los Alamos before taking off and going to Espanyola for more practice. Maybe it was getting a bit gusty up on the mesa, but once again, I'm pretty sure that the conditions in the valley were benign. They could not even hit a rotor with the upper winds from the south.

Remos is not that easy to spin, you have to hold the bottom rudder. I stalled N28GX a number of times, and I spun a Cherokee by accident before. So it must be one of those freak accidents where a bottle of water gets under a rudder pedal or something of that nature.
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