Living and flying in Spain

[Hambone]

As I wrap up the last few years of work here in Abu Dhabi, we're considering retiring in Spain.

I have done some internet research, but would love to hear from anyone living/flying LSAs in Spain. Pros/cons, licensing, problems, etc comments are welcome!

Thanking you in anticipation!

[drseti]

Nice hearing from you, Ham. Long time no see!
I know nothing about the flying situation in Spain, but if it's anything like my experience in Germany, be prepared to be very fluent in the language. The Germans require foreign licensees who want to fly D-registered planes to take a written - in German!

[Nomore767]

As I wrap up the last few years of work here in Abu Dhabi, we're considering retiring in Spain.

I have done some internet research, but would love to hear from anyone living/flying LSAs in Spain. Pros/cons, licensing, problems, etc comments are welcome!

Thanking you in anticipation!

Before you consider retiring to Spain I'd recommend that you do some research in the ex-pat community and the experiences many have had building homes in Spain later deemed 'illegal' by the Spanish authorities. Some were even demolished.

My brother moved to Spain from the UK and spent a lot of money in legal fees to try and avoid his house being 'illegal'...and it's now deemed 'illegal' anyway! Why...no one seems to know and the Spanish won't say. He's had his electric hooked up by a local but officially he isn't connected and so gets no electric bill! His ex-pat neighbors are in the same boat.
My brother but a shelter to store his firewood and the local authority spotted it and told him to take it down because...you guessed it...it's 'illegal'. I can't figure out why they were given permission to build with all the permits when the resulting property is then deemed 'illegal'.

My brother can't sell...because his house is 'illegal' and my wife has a cousin in the same situation. They couldn't sell so they gave up and moved back to the UK and use the house in Spain for vacations. If the authorities demolish it then..oh well.

Many ex-pats are totally frustrated and dispirited so my advice is to take a good hard look before you put money down and build any property in Spain, if that's what you're contemplating?

There's an ad in the UK flying magazines such as Flyer and Pilot (which you can subscribe to on-line) which usually has a couple of ads for air park properties I think in Spain and Portugal. This may be something that interests you if you're thinking of flying there as well.
Again, I'd be sure to ask about the legalities of any built property as well as any covenants regarding the use of the property, rules and regulations, and whether the air park could be shut down later due to...whatever reason they come up with. The EU countries have a lot of laws and regulations totally alien to American cultural experience so it's worth taking time to explore that.

Good luck but caveat emptor.!!

[Hambone]

Thanks for the info!

We did hear about the properties that were being demolished. We're contemplating buying an existing property rather than building new, so hopefully we can avoid that pitfall. We hope to find a reputable realtor/estate agent (if such a thing exists) to help us through the process.

There are British flying schools and instructors in Spain, and I can't think they have to be fluent in Spanish to teach/fly there. I am contemplating teaching there if possible.

Internet research doesn't reveal much information on Spanish licensing. It all seems rather vague.

Thanks again!

[Nomore767]

Thanks for the info!

We did hear about the properties that were being demolished. We're contemplating buying an existing property rather than building new, so hopefully we can avoid that pitfall. We hope to find a reputable realtor/estate agent (if such a thing exists) to help us through the process.

There are British flying schools and instructors in Spain, and I can't think they have to be fluent in Spanish to teach/fly there. I am contemplating teaching there if possible.

Internet research doesn't reveal much information on Spanish licensing. It all seems rather vague.

Thanks again!

It's possible that even existing homes could be 'illegal'...so due diligence is paramount. The problems don't just apply to new construction. Talking with ex-pat communities could really help.

[SportPilot]

.......

[Hambone]

If I was going to move to another country, I would rent for a year or two.

Good advice.

What concerns me is the apparent way that Spanish government officials seem to be able to change laws and regulations on a whim.

[drseti]

What concerns me is the apparent way that Spanish government officials seem to be able to change laws and regulations on a whim.

Isn't that just the fundamental role of all governments?

(Damn, I'm starting to sound like a Libertarian...)

[Hambone]

I'm not liking what I'm learning about expat life in Spain.

I think we're back to shortlisting Tucson and San Antonio as potential retirement locations.

[Jack Tyler]

Ham, IMO your best single (tho' not only) source of info for living in Spain as an expat is to talk with some expat Brits. They've been flooding Spain for decades due to the better weather, and they've worked out every dodge and fiddle that's available. Of course, the Spanish have been busy, as well. Especially since the Great Recession, which severely impacted Spain's economy, the Spanish have been trying to squeeze out every single Euro of tax & fee revenue where they can. We lived there for short periods in 2006 and 2007, as well as Portugal, and part of the dilemma one faces is that there are multiple layers of government which are not necessarily harmonized. (This is not comparable to the U.S. despite it sounding similar). So you have the EU layer, out of Brussels, coupled with layers at the national level which the EU does not control (immigration, customs and nat'l banking regs), on top of which are the local laws, administered by the local officials, often 'customary' and so somewhat independent of whatever national & EU rules exist. Every American has a list of whines and bitches about how our govt. functions but, relatively speaking, it's far more harmonized and aligned (if still at times painfully complex) than what is found in parts of the EU. We found the Brit expats, who over the centuries have learned how to succeed as expats everywhere in the world with great success, are usually reliable sources of how to cope with the locals and the national govts. where they live. And of course they speak English (sort of). We have (British) friends who have successfully settled in Spain and love it. So don't give up the notion because of a few forum cautions and grapevine stories...but DO get some current local knowledge from those who've gone before you.

As a broad generalization, I'd say the farther north in Europe one goes, the more the guidelines, rules, laws, etc. are universally understood and administered. I might have gripes about how my life is governed in Sweden or The Netherlands, but they would be applied uniformly and be well documented. In Spain, as one example among many, much depends on the locality you find yourself in and what local pressures and customs apply. In Italy, Sicily and Greece, frankly, all bets are off.

Having said all that, remember that any guideline, tax rule or law might exist today in one form and exist tomorrow in another. That's true universally...but in countries like Spain things can be somewhat opaque until a bill arrives at your doorstep.

[Hambone]

Thanks, Jack! Thorough and insightful as always...

Upon careful consideration, we have tentatively decided to remain in Abu Dhabi for the next few years. Despite missing many things (general aviation, grass, trees, etc), the economic situation here is very good and, despite how the media portrays the Middle East, it's incredibly safe here. We are aware that could always change.

So that's a bit more time to contemplate a retirement location!