Backup COMM or Nav/Comm?

[SportPilot]

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[BrianL99]

I have done quite a bit of flying with NO radio, and I can't tell that the airplane flies any different.
All joking aside in my part of the country I am quite OK with flying without a radio.

There's some good advice for no one.

You are certainly entitled to your opinion, but missed the point entirely.

The question was about a backup radio. One radio is quite enough for simple VFR flight, especially when you have flip flop frequencies. In my opinion there is no need for a back up radio.

I'm sorry, but you missed my point.

This is the 21st Century. Anyone who's flying without a radio is not only take unnecessary personal risks, but causing his fellow pilots be subjected to unnecessary risks.

Just my opinion, your mileage may vary.

[SportPilot]

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[3Dreaming]

I'm sorry, but you missed my point.

This is the 21st Century. Anyone who's flying without a radio is not only take unnecessary personal risks, but causing his fellow pilots be subjected to unnecessary risks.

Just my opinion, your mileage may vary.

While it is true that this is the 21st century, many of us are flying airplanes that are not. In the past I restored a Oshkosh grand champion antique, and original is very important. For me I enjoy flying small antique airplanes, so the risk of dangling wires and falling portable radios while flying is greater than flying without a radio in the airspace which I fly. I might have a different view if I was flying in busier airspace. Personally I would rather share the airspace with someone in a airplane with no radio who is looking for traffic outside the airplane, than someone with a radio who is relying on it to know if there is any traffic in the area.

[BrianL99]

Nonsense. There are plenty of planes flying without a radio or electrical system. That's why we have VFR rules and weather minimums as well as airport procedures, etc.

To suggest that flying sans radio is as safe for the pilot and other pilots, as flying with a radio is nonsense.

[BrianL99]

I'm sorry, but you missed my point.

This is the 21st Century. Anyone who's flying without a radio is not only take unnecessary personal risks, but causing his fellow pilots be subjected to unnecessary risks.

Just my opinion, your mileage may vary.

While it is true that this is the 21st century, many of us are flying airplanes that are not. In the past I restored a Oshkosh grand champion antique, and original is very important. For me I enjoy flying small antique airplanes, so the risk of dangling wires and falling portable radios while flying is greater than flying without a radio in the airspace which I fly. I might have a different view if I was flying in busier airspace. Personally I would rather share the airspace with someone in a airplane with no radio who is looking for traffic outside the airplane, than someone with a radio who is relying on it to know if there is any traffic in the area.

Back in the day, automobiles came without "directionals", yet current regulations require an alternative . A conscientious driver uses hand signals when driving "original" cars.

I don't want anyone flying in the same airspace I'm in, without a radio and transponder.

We can agree to disagree on the subject.

[SportPilot]

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[SportPilot]

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[BrianL99]

Then you need to ground yourself.

If you don't have anything substantive or intelligent to say, I'll leave you to amuse yourself.

[SportPilot]

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[dstclair]

If I have an Ipad for GPS navigation, is there any reason you can think that I'd need backup navigation on the radio as well?

Now back to our regularly scheduled program.....

I would not spend the money on yet another backup for VFR navigation given what you have. I think you'd be disappointed in the VOR reception of a handheld as well.

[3Dreaming]

Back in the day, automobiles came without "directionals", yet current regulations require an alternative . A conscientious driver uses hand signals when driving "original" cars.

I don't want anyone flying in the same airspace I'm in, without a radio and transponder.

We can agree to disagree on the subject.

A conscientious pilot of a no radio aircraft will follow the recommended procedures for pattern operations. By doing this any pilot, radio or not should know where to look for traffic.
A far greater risk to those flying at class G and E airports is people who do not follow recommended procedures and CFR's, and this is not a radio non radio thing. I is a lack of training or simple disregard for procedures thing.

BTW I am OK with you disagreeing with what I think. It was the SA remark that got my dander up.

[drseti]

A far greater risk to those flying at class G and E airports is people who do not follow recommended procedures and CFR's

I agree completely. As it happens, just yesterday I had a working lunch with our FSDO's FAASTeam program manager. One topic of discussion was those who make straight in approaches into E and G airports. Not necessarily an FAR violation, but very much compromises safety, when local procedure is to enter on a 45 for a rectangular pattern. Equally unsafe (and we see it all the time at my airport) is folks who disregard designated RH patterns, and fly left traffic, putting them nose to nose on base leg with other aircraft flying the published pattern. (It's both on sectionals and in the AFD, neither of which these pilots seem to look at...)

I doubt that having or using a radio will cure folks of these practices.

[3Dreaming]

I manage a small airport that is in class G airspace. All of out runways have the standard left hand traffic pattern. It is amazing how often someone calls in flying a right hand pattern. Not long ago I wondered out to the fuel pump where a young fellow was fueling a Diamond DA40. I politely suggested he discuss operations at airports in class G airspace with his instructor when he returned from his solo cross country. He had come in flying a nice right hand pattern making all the propper radio calls. He had no clue that he had done anything wrong, and that falls on his instructor. The sad thing is there have been instructors from the same place do the same thing.

[Nomore767]

"I don't want anyone flying in the same airspace I'm in, without a radio and transponder.

We can agree to disagree on the subject."

Its great to fly in the US airspace with a radio and transponder. Until it stops working. Then you have to use a skill quality that sadly less and less pilots seem to utilize…airmanship. The rest of us have to assume and hope that you're capable of adapting to your NORDO situation (and maybe no transponder too if there was, say, an electrical system failure) and safely land whilst avoiding the rest of us.

A radio is only useful if you can communicate with someone else or gather pertinent information. A transponder is only useful if ATC can see it and use it to try and separate other airplanes. Even this may require some communication to get a squawk and advise who you are and your intentions.

You say you only want someone flying your airspace with a radio and transponder? So you have a radio but how do you get me to communicate with you unless we're on a common frequency? Even then I'm not required to communicate WITH you. Even then I don't necessarily know that you're on the same frequency, and what is it that you want me to communicate with you anyway? If my transponder's working, or not, how would you know and how would it help you anyway? Unless we were both in a transponder required controlled airspace where ATC is assigning codes to both of us in order to provide separation.

If we're flying a less crowded airspace (ie. not in Class B, C or D etc) a transponder is mutually useless except if we have some traffic avoidance system in the airplane.
If we're flying in less crowded airspace what good is the radio as far as keeping us safe unless we see the airplane and guess the frequency they're on?
Even with flight following we're talking to ATC who have probably issued a squawk but we're still responsible for separation by looking outside. Indeed, flight following is really only backing up our requirement to see and avoid. We're certainly not talking to each other on that frequency.

If we're in the pattern at a controlled field we're talking to ATC and we 'could' talk to each other but we don't necessarily need a transponder. If we're at an uncontrolled field then we can announce our position and intentions as well as talk to each other in that regard. Whilst looking for traffic. We can also not talk to each other and still safely separate ourselves, but yes, let's use all our resources.

I don't necessarily 'disagree' with you I just don't see your point.

If it turns out someone IS in your airspace without a radio and transponder how would you know? What COULD you do, what WOULD you do?
If I'm in your airspace in a NORDO airplane, or if my radio/transponder failed, what's your problem with that and what would you do?